IET logo
 
IET
Decrease font size
Increase font size
Topic Title: EICR's are they essential.
Topic Summary:
Created On: 17 April 2013 03:52 PM
Status: Post and Reply
Linear : Threading : Single : Branch
Search Topic Search Topic
Topic Tools Topic Tools
View similar topics View similar topics
View topic in raw text format. Print this topic.
 17 April 2013 03:52 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



Bluesmeister

Posts: 14
Joined: 05 April 2013

Hi Guys.

Did a visual on a domestic property on Tuesday and drew up a list of obvious deviations that would require remedial work in order to gain a "Satisfactory" Condition Report, the work complete with new hard wired Smoke, Heat and Carbon Monoxide detectors amounted to quite a lot of money.

A phone call today from the owner of the property who tells me that the local letting agent does not require a certificate if it is not being let to students, and has told the owner just to "test the tripswitch to make sure it works"

Smokes etc. they were always "extra" and so they are going to fit battery operated ones.

It is a early seventies house, someone has retro fitted a 30mA RCD at the front end of the wooden backed wylex consumer unit that is mounted on a piece of plywood, back in the late eighties.

There is no bonding at all, and no earth electrode at all on the TT system. Cables running here there and everywhere that feed additions to the existing install.

This is a nice country house probably worth half a mill but talk about tight!!

Just looking for thoughts.
 17 April 2013 04:12 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



AJJewsbury

Posts: 11442
Joined: 13 August 2003

Bottom line is: it's the customer's decision. They have the responsibility and bare the costs (either way) - all you can do is advise.

I can't help but think that they've got themselves into the worst possible position - having paid for your time & advice all they have to show for it is documentary evidence that might help any case against them should anything untoward happen in future.

- Andy.
 17 April 2013 04:29 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



Bluesmeister

Posts: 14
Joined: 05 April 2013

My thought are that the local letting agent is being a little irresponsible and has given poor advice based upon our findings.

We carry out work for nationwide letting agents and they insist on certification and anything wrong has to be rectified. They always insist that their properties have smoke, heat AND carbon detectors fitted, they are also very keen on H & S and although sometimes a pain at least they do it right as far as we are concerned.
 17 April 2013 05:08 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



AJJewsbury

Posts: 11442
Joined: 13 August 2003

I guess that's the effect of a free market - unless legislation explicitly says some certificate is required, some will always opt out.

From what you say it doesn't sounds that bad - you say TT with no rod, but it sounds like it's picking up an earth from somewhere (old metal water pipe)? If so, then it's not immediately dangerous on that count. The up-front 30mA RCD means that touch voltages from internal faults should be tolerable (no 1s or 5s disconnection times), so the benefits from bonding regards to internal faults aren't too much of a loss. If it's out in the sticks and not on PME, then external faults probably aren't too much of a worry either.

As for the wooden backed CU - they're probably somewhat less flammable than some modern standard compliant replacements.

All told, it sounds far from ideal, but I wouldn't loose too much sleep over it.

- Andy.
 17 April 2013 09:11 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for leckie.
leckie

Posts: 1863
Joined: 21 November 2008

The letting agents are offering advice, very dodgy to say an EICR is not required unless its students, what difference does that make? Is this property only being let to competent persons or something?

The owner has the decision to make, and a risk assessment to make, but by not taking any action to ensure the safety of the electrical installation they could be in deep sh*t if any problems were to occur. Especially if your report came to light during an investigation. Well that's my view.
 17 April 2013 11:12 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



John Peckham

Posts: 7458
Joined: 23 April 2005

The majority of letting agents have 3 priorities which are Their commission, their commission and their commission. The don't give a toss about anything else let alone electrical safety. If pressed for an EICR they can summon up a tame contractor who will produce a toilet paper EICR which will say "satisfactory". The last thing they want is someone coming in doing a thorough job and issuing an EICR that says "Unsatisfactory" as this may interfere with their 3 priorities. Diito Estate Agents.

-------------------------
John Peckham

http://www.astutetechnicalservices.co.uk/
 17 April 2013 11:44 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



geoffsd

Posts: 344
Joined: 15 June 2010

Originally posted by: leckieThe letting agents are offering advice, very dodgy to say an EICR is not required unless its students, what difference does that make? Is this property only being let to competent persons or something?

They are sort of right.

The LA require that 'Houses of Multiple Occupancy' - mostly let to students - be inspected.
Ordinary flats and house lets rely only on the landlord's duty of care to ensure it is safe.
.

The owner has the decision to make, and a risk assessment to make, but by not taking any action to ensure the safety of the electrical installation they could be in deep sh*t if any problems were to occur. Especially if your report came to light during an investigation. Well that's my view.

True.
 18 April 2013 08:05 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for ebee.
ebee

Posts: 5698
Joined: 02 December 2004

Originally posted by: John Peckham

The majority of letting agents have 3 priorities which are Their commission, their commission and their commission. The don't give a toss about anything else let alone electrical safety. If pressed for an EICR they can summon up a tame contractor who will produce a toilet paper EICR which will say "satisfactory". The last thing they want is someone coming in doing a thorough job and issuing an EICR that says "Unsatisfactory" as this may interfere with their 3 priorities. Diito Estate Agents.


John Peckham,
Some might think you`re a cynic.

Oh how true your words are.

-------------------------
Regards,
Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
 18 April 2013 08:11 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for dickllewellyn.
dickllewellyn

Posts: 1150
Joined: 19 March 2010

It's the duty of care bit that landlords need to consider. Wouldn't it be easy to prove their duty of care by simply paying for a good condition report and carrying out any remedial work?

I think ESC produce a guide to landlords. Somebody certainly does, I sent copies to letting agents we work with. Funnily enough, they tend to use odd jobbers now rather than us!

-------------------------
Regards
Richard (Dick)

"Insert words of wisdom and/or witty pun here"
 18 April 2013 08:31 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



Jaymack

Posts: 4639
Joined: 07 April 2004

Originally posted by: John Peckham
The majority of letting agents have 3 priorities which are Their commission, their commission and their commission. The don't give a toss about anything else let alone electrical safety.

They have the same dilemmas that us plebians have, one of which is the price passed to the client, and staying competitive. If handling charges are too high, they'll lose business, albeit that it's all deductible, .......... if applicable!

Regards
 18 April 2013 09:43 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



AJJewsbury

Posts: 11442
Joined: 13 August 2003

The letting agents are offering advice, very dodgy to say an EICR is not required unless its students, what difference does that make?

I gather that many student houses are now let via the university/college accommodation office - who often tag on extra safety conditions before allowing a property to appear on their lists.

- Andy.
Statistics

See Also:



FuseTalk Standard Edition v3.2 - © 1999-2014 FuseTalk Inc. All rights reserved.