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Topic Title: Water Bond
Topic Summary: Ive been asked to install gas bonds but some have water bonds missing
Created On: 14 March 2013 06:37 PM
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 14 March 2013 06:37 PM
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hullelectrician

Posts: 14
Joined: 04 July 2012

Hi guys I would appreciate your thoughts on this.
A customer of mine has had various gas safety checks done and a few have thrown up the lack of gas bond, and as usual no gas bond usually equals no water bond!
there is one in particular where there is no water or gas bond, the consumer unit is in the kitchen high up, nice new kitchen, well decorated etc etc. The gas bond I can get in because the gas meter is also high up in the kitchen so a short piece of trunking no problem.
The water is a different matter, no easy way around the kitchen to the sink, doorway and kitchen units, cooker hood 1 way and stairs if i go the other way!
My question is this, I believe I will be making the property safer by just installing the gas bond, and cross bonding the boiler, then if I do a long lead test to all the exposed conductive parts to ensure it is bonded correctly.
Any ideas?
thanks
 14 March 2013 07:12 PM
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Dave69

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Joined: 16 July 2011

Normally anything is better than nothing but who is going to sign the certs?

Sorry, do it properly or not at all
 14 March 2013 07:38 PM
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hullelectrician

Posts: 14
Joined: 04 July 2012

Yea I get that 'do it properly or not at al'l, but the not at all leaves the property in a more dangerous situation than doing part of it!
 15 March 2013 07:29 AM
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SherlockOhms

Posts: 313
Joined: 05 April 2011

Through the wall to outside and around the house and back in?

Up through the ceiling and perhaps pick up a water pipe somewhere upstairs?
Again, out through the wall, up/around and back into the bathroom?
"Near as practicable" Note location of bonding conection on the cert.

Done.

S.
 15 March 2013 07:46 AM
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stateit

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Joined: 15 April 2005

That would be my take on it as well Sherlock, although I can hear some coughing and spluttering, choking sounds almost, from behind the wings of the Chesterfield armchairs in The Regs Club Drawing Room (Ladies Day once a year, definitely no plumbers accepted).

-------------------------
S George
http://www.sg-electrical.com
 15 March 2013 07:57 AM
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OldSparky

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Joined: 28 June 2011

i am of the belief you have to be practical where possible..

personally i would catch the water were possible and make a note on the certificate.

also do some cross bonding maybe
 15 March 2013 12:02 PM
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hullelectrician

Posts: 14
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Yea thats also my take on it.
Outside not an option as it mid terrace, and there are no water pipes upstairs as kitchen and bathroom on ground floor, unless picking up the central heating pipes, this would then make it a simpler job as there is a rad below consumer unit.
Does this sound feesable?
Long lead test from possible bond position to all exposed water pipes and rads to ensure continuity through out, cross bond boiler, and make a note on cert?
 15 March 2013 12:19 PM
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SherlockOhms

Posts: 313
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It does sound like a tricky one.

If you bond to heating pipes it'll need to be unbroken with the boiler bond I think which probably takes us back to the initial problem?

S.
 15 March 2013 12:22 PM
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SherlockOhms

Posts: 313
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Could you not use some nice quadrant trunking up and around the door architrive? A blind man on a galloping horse will never notice !.

S.
 15 March 2013 02:01 PM
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daveparry1

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I've got a similar one to sort out, quite a big old house been converted into two but not up/down in the usual way but front and back. Gas is fairly easy but water intake and kitchen are at the other end of the building so water bond is going in the loft, mini-trunking in the corner of the hallway and then across the loft onto the old lead water pipe feeding the tank, I will check that the feed is lead all the way but I think it will be as I can see it in the kitchen and the toilet,

Dave.
 15 March 2013 02:42 PM
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WiredScience

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Joined: 25 January 2012

Hi daveparry1, I seem to recall regs saying something about "hard pipe" somewhere? My understanding is that the lead deforms and the clamp can loosen. Or are you planning on using an alternative to BS951 clamps? Will you have a mop handy :-)
 15 March 2013 03:20 PM
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daveparry1

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As far as i'm concerned Wired, lead is hard! What they mean is don't put it onto flexible pipe like the one that's often fitted at the gas meter etc.. As for damaging the lead pipe have you ever seen how thick the wall of lead water pipe is? BS951's are fine on lead water pipe,

Dave.
 15 March 2013 03:51 PM
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peteTLM

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Originally posted by: WiredScience

Hi daveparry1, I seem to recall regs saying something about "hard pipe" somewhere? My understanding is that the lead deforms and the clamp can loosen. Or are you planning on using an alternative to BS951 clamps? Will you have a mop handy :-)


I dont think lead pipes are quite as sensitive as that. They will take a good whack with a club hammer or SDS max and still be serviceable.

If the boiler is nearby, can you follow the route of the pipework back to the incoming?

-------------------------
----------------------------------------
Lack of planning on your part doesn't make it an emergency on mine....

Every man has to know his limitations- Dirty Harry
 18 March 2013 11:40 AM
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AJJewsbury

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I dont think lead pipes are quite as sensitive as that. They will take a good whack with a club hammer or SDS max and still be serviceable.

I agree about lead water pipes - they have to withstand mains water pressure (up to 16 bar?) so are plenty tough enough to cope with a BS 951. Lead gas pipes on the other hand often have much thinner walls (as they only have to withstand much lower pressures - 20 millibar?) - but they usually have a brass sleeve inside where they're soldered to meter unions etc, so a clamp there is usually OK.

- Andy.
 18 March 2013 07:41 PM
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UKPN

Posts: 452
Joined: 17 January 2012

"cross bonding" is main bonding

Regards
 18 March 2013 08:28 PM
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topmark

Posts: 120
Joined: 27 March 2009

since when?
rightly or wrongly,cross bonding is a loose term used by sparks when refering to supplementary bonding or equipotential bonding.
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