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Topic Title: Fire detection in hmo
Topic Summary: Aico 9v battery back up
Created On: 06 March 2013 04:56 PM
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 06 March 2013 04:56 PM
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dw128567

Posts: 1
Joined: 06 March 2013

Hi, I was asked to carry out a eicr this morning on a hmo 3 story property with 8 bedrooms,living and kitchen areas. Whilst i was there the landlord asked if the smoke alarm system was the correct system for the property as he wasnt sure as he has just brought it. As I only deal with domestic smoke alarm systems I did not want to give him a answer incase I got it wrong. so hoping one of you know more about this issue.
The system which is there is only around 2-3 years old but it is a aico 9v battery back up hardwire interconnected system with alarms in all bedrooms kitchen and living areas, but I can not see any control switch which you can use on these alarms and also no call points at all installed. Looking around this property I do not think this is correct as there are no means of fault finding or means of hushing them or if the system as been tampered with. Hoping one of you can give me answer just so i can give him some info on this matter but in my opinion i would of fitted a conventional alarm system.

Thanks Dave
 06 March 2013 05:21 PM
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michaelbrett

Posts: 941
Joined: 28 December 2005

I think you may need a zoned panel arrangement. You might want to get one of the fire panel manufacturers to work up a design for you. Typically for a three storey HMO, you will need a minimum of one zone per floor.

Regards

Mike
 06 March 2013 05:40 PM
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rocknroll

Posts: 8902
Joined: 03 October 2005

Here you go for the guides, the one you want is listed as 'sleeping accomodation'.

http://webarchive.nationalarch...safety/firesafetylaw/

regards

-------------------------
"Take nothing but a picture,
leave nothing but footprints!"
-------------------------
"Oh! The drama of it all."
-------------------------
"You can throw all the philosophy you like at the problem, but at the end of the day it's just basic electrical theory!"
-------------------------
 06 March 2013 05:40 PM
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microy

Posts: 365
Joined: 25 October 2005

Google LACORS.

The landlord should do a risk assessment. The local fire brigade and local council will advise at no cost.

Mike.
 06 March 2013 05:50 PM
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Richard64

Posts: 231
Joined: 15 October 2009

As was explained to me last week, the insurers of the property will set out their requirements.
 06 March 2013 06:25 PM
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slittle

Posts: 3595
Joined: 22 November 2007

From last week's AICO training course...

HMO's can have mains operated battery backed smoke detectors in the individual rooms but the common areas should be protected by a "system"

Give AICO technical a call, they will point you in the right direction I'm sure.


Stu

(no connection with AICO, just Edmundsons offered free training along with beer and pizza)
 06 March 2013 08:05 PM
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dbullard

Posts: 1166
Joined: 02 March 2006

Great book
ISBN -10: 185112 817 4 fire safety and risk assessment (sleeping accomodation)

Govermant guide to HMO'S and sleeping accomodation, I purchased it a year or so ago as I got called to a block of privately owned flats and they wanted mains operated fire detection over 4 stories and when I initialy went prior to buying the giude I was damn sure it would have had to of been a dedicated fire system, this book proved me right, but because the "owners" were also the tennants they argued that it didn't so I walked away.

Regards

Daren

-------------------------
..... Dont pee in my pocket and tell me its raining ......


www.quest-electrical-sw.co.uk
 06 March 2013 08:21 PM
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OMS

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Joined: 23 March 2004

I'm guessing that publication would point you towards BS 5839 - Part 6, which would inducate for a HMO, in the communal areas:

Grade A, Category LD2, with detectors sited in accordance with
the recommendations of BS 5839-1 for a Category L2 systemo


So a "proper" fire alarm system then

Individual bedrooms etc would normally be LD2 or LD3 depending on the general "state" of the building in terms of passive protection, compartmentation etc.

regards

OMS

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Failure is always an option
 06 March 2013 09:26 PM
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slittle

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That's pretty much what the nice lady said on the course OMS.

I couldn't be bothered to reach for the book earlier as I'd just walked back in the office after a 450 mile day trip to fix a pig feeder in Somerset.


Stu
 06 March 2013 10:37 PM
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sparkingchip

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The property needs a MHO licence, so asked the local council as they are the authority that issues the licence.


Andy
 07 March 2013 07:09 AM
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Richard64

Posts: 231
Joined: 15 October 2009

My understanding is that the definition of an HMO is a building that has been converted into separate dwellings. Either bedsits, witrh communal living areas or self contained flats with communal access areas. As opposed to purpose built flats. Is this correct?
Again my understanding is that, the fire detection system category and grade will be dependent on various factors - ie. use of building, construction materials and measures in place for fire prevention and fire containment.
There is also the balance between adequate fire detection and prevention of false alarms.
This will mean that as installers we may not be aware of all the variables involved. The category and grade of the system should be specified by the client - either by the architect, or local fire service/ building control. But ultimately the building's insurers.
I would be very wary of specifying a system myself. It could turn out to be a very costly decision.
Then we can design a system to this spec.
 19 June 2013 01:41 AM
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BenjaminMashman

Posts: 9
Joined: 19 June 2013

I agree, Richard. It won't be solely based on your choice because if the building insurers don't agree, then you can't do anything about it.
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