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Topic Title: Apprentice
Topic Summary: Diabetic
Created On: 03 March 2013 12:10 AM
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 03 March 2013 12:10 AM
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ady1

Posts: 766
Joined: 19 April 2005

Should I take on an 18 year old apprentice who is diabetic ?

Regards
Ady

-------------------------
Resistance is futile.
 03 March 2013 12:28 AM
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DOUGIE1000

Posts: 4165
Joined: 13 August 2005

Why not, but i would keep a bottle of lucozade in the van just encase.

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Dougie
Power Plus Electrical.co.uk

My mission is to live as long as possible......so far so good!
 03 March 2013 07:44 AM
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Thripster

Posts: 639
Joined: 22 August 2006

Should be good at adiabatic calculations...so why not?
 03 March 2013 09:15 AM
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markespark

Posts: 87
Joined: 27 November 2010

Originally posted by: DOUGIE1000

Why not, but i would keep a bottle of lucozade in the van just encase.


That's sooo wrong lol
 03 March 2013 11:51 AM
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Cremeegg

Posts: 528
Joined: 13 July 2007

Why not? - it's all about controlling it.

An apprentice that happily drinks too much is more or a risk.

Never stopped Gary Mabbutt at Spurs or Sir Steve Redgrave winning his five Olympic Golds.
 03 March 2013 12:35 PM
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baldelectrician

Posts: 311
Joined: 11 June 2005

I would suggest you take the apprentice on is he / she is the best candidate

I would also suggest that as he / she may be a typical teenager with a more 'I am immortal' attitude you should put a system in place to make him check his blood sugars at required intervals.
If he needs a jag you could have a cooler box (or even a 12 V fridge) in the van to help

You may get a grant to install a fridge or similar.

I would make it as easy as possible to have him / her in your employ if he / she is the best candidate.

-------------------------
baldelectrician.com
 03 March 2013 12:49 PM
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rocknroll

Posts: 8846
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you should put a system in place to make him check his blood sugars at required intervals.


I suspect they will have their own strict regime in order to do this and will probably not welcome your interference.

It is estimated that around 10m in the UK have diabetes of one form, type 1 or 2, and 60-70% dont know they have it because they dont recognise some of the common symptoms, run down, tiredness, sickness, loss of energy etc; diabetes is becoming a well supported serious issue and the NHS is identifying around 300 people a day who have this problem, to be fair the majority of people who have this problem whether type 1 or 2 manage it very well through oral or injected medicines and diet and are not a threat to anyone else around them, most healthcare professionals would not recommend drinks like Lucozade which is full of sugar as this could cause some serious complications, the advice is call the emergency services immediately and as an interim measure until a paramedic can arrive they may suggest something like and apple, banana or maybe a couple of digestive biscuits.

One thing to remember is unless you can monitor the blood levels you cannot tell if the person is suffering from a Hyperglycaemia attack (high sugar) or a Hypoglycemia attack (low sugar) so what you give them could worsen the situation.

regards

-------------------------
"Take nothing but a picture,
leave nothing but footprints!"
-------------------------
"Oh! The drama of it all."
-------------------------
"You can throw all the philosophy you like at the problem, but at the end of the day it's just basic electrical theory!"
-------------------------

Edited: 03 March 2013 at 01:13 PM by rocknroll
 03 March 2013 01:17 PM
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patt2

Posts: 526
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Originally posted by: rocknroll

you should put a system in place to make him check his blood sugars at required intervals.




I suspect they will have their own strict regime in order to do this and will probably not welcome your interference.



It is estimated that around 10m in the UK have diabetes of one form, type 1 or 2, and 60-70% dont know they have it because they dont recognise some of the common symptoms, run down, tiredness, sickness, loss of energy etc; diabetes is becoming a well supported serious issue and the NHS is identifying around 300 people a day who have this problem, to be fair the majority of people who have this problem whether type 1 or 2 manage it very well through oral or injected medicines and diet and are not a threat to anyone else around them, most healthcare professionals would not recommend drinks like Lucozade which is full of sugar as this could cause some serious complications, the advice is call the emergency services immediately and as an interim measure until a paramedic can arrive they may suggest something like and apple, banana or maybe a couple of digestive biscuits.



One thing to remember is unless you can monitor the blood levels you cannot tell if the person is suffering from a Hyperglycaemia attack (high sugar) or a Hypoglycemia attack (low sugar) so what you give them can worsen the situation.



regards


Spot on again.

No reason at all why you should not take on a diabetic if; as has been said He/ She is the best candidate.
 03 March 2013 02:09 PM
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Jaymack

Posts: 4639
Joined: 07 April 2004

No experience with diabetics, but I would be looking for guidance on the risks involved, and possible limitations on the scope of work for any employee.

I interviewed and hired a shift electrician, when I was the plant engineer in a South African steelworks. He was already employed as an electrician in factory, where his father was a director; when I asked the obvious, he said that he wanted away from his father's influence, which I accepted as not being unreasonable.

A few months later, a guy rushed into the office and shouted that "one of my men" had fallen off an overhead crane. It transpired that it was this electrician, who had had an epeliptic fit on the ground, not on a crane. Subsequently, it was found that he had had other fits and was never reported by the other workers; also it was never recorded on his application form, nor mentioned to the personnel interviewer. I asked him why he was allowed to drive a car to and from work, he said that he had to take tablets and he could sense when a fit was coming on, giving him time to pull over. Unfortunately I had to ask him to resign, which he did.

I have sympathy for people with such complaints, and have a grandson in America who is an epiliptic, he's had numerous fits and has incurred serious head injuries as a result; whether this was due to not taking the medication or not, I don't know - he says he takes the medicine.

Anyone who has a complaint, that can potentially cause injury to themselves or those around them, is a risk that requires careful assessment by any employer, w.r.t the work description and the intended scope of work, not to mention insurance cover.

Regards
 03 March 2013 04:29 PM
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slittle

Posts: 3510
Joined: 22 November 2007

Originally posted by: rocknroll

you should put a system in place to make him check his blood sugars at required intervals.




I suspect they will have their own strict regime in order to do this and will probably not welcome your interference.



It is estimated that around 10m in the UK have diabetes of one form, type 1 or 2, and 60-70% dont know they have it because they dont recognise some of the common symptoms, run down, tiredness, sickness, loss of energy etc; diabetes is becoming a well supported serious issue and the NHS is identifying around 300 people a day who have this problem, to be fair the majority of people who have this problem whether type 1 or 2 manage it very well through oral or injected medicines and diet and are not a threat to anyone else around them, most healthcare professionals would not recommend drinks like Lucozade which is full of sugar as this could cause some serious complications, the advice is call the emergency services immediately and as an interim measure until a paramedic can arrive they may suggest something like and apple, banana or maybe a couple of digestive biscuits.



One thing to remember is unless you can monitor the blood levels you cannot tell if the person is suffering from a Hyperglycaemia attack (high sugar) or a Hypoglycemia attack (low sugar) so what you give them could worsen the situation.



regards


We've been taught by the ambulance service that if unable to monitor levels then although giving sugar in a hyper situation will make it worse, it's not as bad as not giving sugar in a hypo. so if in doubt give something sweet.
The signs and symptoms are different as well which I'm sure the apprentice will know all about.

I'd say crack on and take him on if his skills are good, just be aware of the situation and make sure he looks after himself.

Stu
 03 March 2013 07:14 PM
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M.Joshi

Posts: 212
Joined: 10 January 2003

Keep a small tube of GlucoTabs with you in case of emergency rather than a sugary drink:

http://www.glucotabs.co.uk/

They are available from most pharmacies and supermarkets.

You can also take one when feeling low on energy reserves!

-------------------------
M.I.E.T - Forfeited this due to The I.E.T's ridiculous membership rules!
 03 March 2013 07:14 PM
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sparkingchip

Posts: 6042
Joined: 18 January 2003

Around fifteen years ago I worked on a site in Cheltenham for Britannia Homes, the site agent was muttering and moaning having been tasked by the contract manager to compile a list of everyone on site if a medical condition so that if there was a issue they knew what action to take and what information to pass on to the ambulance service. "Waste of time" was his initial reaction, however I saw him later in the day and he looked shell shocked, he had a detailed list showing that at a significant number of people on the site could keel over at any time. If you are going to discriminate on medical grounds you could disallow a huge number of potential candidates for jobs you advertise.

The change of conductor identification colours was supposed to make it easier for people with colour blindness, so a problem such as this should be a problem that can be overcome.

You could be raising issues that shouldn't be a real issue.

Andy
 03 March 2013 07:46 PM
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stateit

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Ady1:

Just by writing that single sentence in your OP you have already broken the Equality Act 2010 and several Codes of Employment Practice !!

Be Careful !

[edited DDA to Equality Act]

-------------------------
S George
http://www.sg-electrical.com
 03 March 2013 07:55 PM
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Jaymack

Posts: 4639
Joined: 07 April 2004

Originally posted by: sparkingchip
If you are going to discriminate on medical grounds you could disallow a huge number of potential candidates for jobs you advertise.

There's a lot goes on behind the scenes. I don't think discrimination is the politically correct word, where there is a physical handicap involved. I think of it as being a realistic stance for the employer under the HSWA regulations and to avoid litigation etc. An example that I had, was when an electrical engineer from my previous company, (where he was office bound), asked me to speak for him when he attended for an interview in an aluminium smelter, (my new company). I knew this guy had a problem with his shoulder joints where they easily slip out, (Chronic Shoulder Instability). I couldn't recommend him for work climbing crane ladders etc. etc. Unfortunately, he got a Dear John.

Regards
 03 March 2013 08:04 PM
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ady1

Posts: 766
Joined: 19 April 2005

Thanks for all the valuable input, so here's the story....
I never advertised for an apprentice, but felt i needed one anyway, he was a son of a friend i hadn't seen for some time.
As i knew his dad well from the past, at the interview i agreed to give him a trial. He, nor his dad mentioned any problems with his health. He looks well and as i played rugby with his dad for years i presumed his son would be fit.
After a couple of days i realised there was problems....
Five mins hard work - sweating like mad (opening all windows and spraying deodrant)
Drinking approx 30 litres of water most days
Peeing every 10 mins
Occasionally, nearly passing out and having to wait till he normalised
Eating a breakfast at home, 4 sausage and bacon butties at 10.30, lunch at 12, crisps, biscuits etc all afternoon, then home for tea and snacking all night.
Farting all day, drinking them energy drinks
And there's loads more of shall i say 'irregular' behaviour.

He's a nice lad, but nothing special as a potential electrician.
I phoned his Dad who said he wasn't aware of some of the things i pointed out and that his lad just thinks he's invincible and that his doctor said 'he needs to have a 'Crash' to help him realise the seriousness of his illness. so i said 'I dont want him to have his 'Crash' when he's with me, or up a ladder !!!
So you see my problem - do i get rid or embrace diabetes.
Regards
Ady

-------------------------
Resistance is futile.
 03 March 2013 08:56 PM
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peteTLM

Posts: 3152
Joined: 31 March 2005

i dont think he should be eating all that crap if he diabetic, or anything else for that matter.

Doesn;t sound like he knows what he doing. run away.

Isnt water dangerous at that level of consumption??

-------------------------
----------------------------------------
Lack of planning on your part doesn't make it an emergency on mine....

Every man has to know his limitations- Dirty Harry
 03 March 2013 09:12 PM
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rocknroll

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Diabetes is manageable but needs a concentrated effort coupled with education, support, diet, exercise etc and of course medication, generally people with the most common diabetes type 2 can come off medication after a year a so but it needs a slight change in your lifestyle and plenty of self discipline from then on, once you get used to it you feel good and often become more healthy than those who work around you who do not have a blood check and probably have the early stages of diabetes, it seems quite obvious that your apprentice has either serious type 2 which I am fully aware of or type 1 and is not managing his condition properly, does he get the support required from his family and healthcare professionals in this area that is the burning question.

95% of people who have diabetes dont even tell you and it is not generally recogniseable as they take advantage of self management and have access to the best sources of information, support and treatment, they dont treat their diabetes as a problem and neither should you, Diabetes UK have been successful in protecting employees who have this condition and the Equality Act 2010 which came into force on 1 October 2010 brings together and extends existing anti-discrimination legislation, including the Disability Discrimination Act 1995 (DDA).

As I pointed out Diabetes especially type 2 in this day and age is becoming a huge problem (300 a day) and has been given the term the 'silent assassin' and I have no doubt many of you one day will after blood test be informed you have it but trust me it is not the end of the world and very very manageable, the changes you have to make are on the whole very small and there is stacks of information out there and excellent support.

regards

-------------------------
"Take nothing but a picture,
leave nothing but footprints!"
-------------------------
"Oh! The drama of it all."
-------------------------
"You can throw all the philosophy you like at the problem, but at the end of the day it's just basic electrical theory!"
-------------------------

Edited: 03 March 2013 at 09:48 PM by rocknroll
 03 March 2013 09:54 PM
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Pacific

Posts: 590
Joined: 29 January 2005

Originally posted by: ady1

Thanks for all the valuable input, so here's the story....

I never advertised for an apprentice, but felt i needed one anyway, he was a son of a friend i hadn't seen for some time.

As i knew his dad well from the past, at the interview i agreed to give him a trial. He, nor his dad mentioned any problems with his health. He looks well and as i played rugby with his dad for years i presumed his son would be fit.

After a couple of days i realised there was problems....



Five mins hard work - sweating like mad (opening all windows and spraying deodrant)

Drinking approx 30 litres of water most days

Peeing every 10 mins

Occasionally, nearly passing out and having to wait till he normalised

Eating a breakfast at home, 4 sausage and bacon butties at 10.30, lunch at 12, crisps, biscuits etc all afternoon, then home for tea and snacking all night.

Farting all day, drinking them energy drinks

And there's loads more of shall i say 'irregular' behaviour.



He's a nice lad, but nothing special as a potential electrician.

I phoned his Dad who said he wasn't aware of some of the things i pointed out and that his lad just thinks he's invincible and that his doctor said 'he needs to have a 'Crash' to help him realise the seriousness of his illness. so i said 'I dont want him to have his 'Crash' when he's with me, or up a ladder !!!

So you see my problem - do i get rid or embrace diabetes.

Regards

Ady


I am type 2 diabetic and this sounds like the lad is not sticking to his diet, crisps bicuits etc are not prohibited but must be considerd a treat to be eaten on rare occasions, if he is injecting his insulin can be adjusted to cope with high sugar but is not the way to cope with the condition, he should be under constant montoring by his Doc and local health centre, I go regularly for eye scans, feet checks and blood tests

 04 March 2013 02:10 PM
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amandalewin

Posts: 144
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Just a quick point but if you did need to get a fridge in the van or anything else you might be able to get help from the Access to Work Scheme. Government run it gives some funding to help disabled people be more employable. My case is a bit different (visual impairment) but you don't ask you don't get eh?

-------------------------
Amanda

'At some point we all must chose between what is right and what is awesome'
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