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Topic Title: EICR
Topic Summary: FLEX
Created On: 02 March 2013 08:46 PM
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 02 March 2013 08:46 PM
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Ampman

Posts: 992
Joined: 06 February 2006

Evening,

i tested a house this week and went back today to finish off .

Lighting circuits failed , no earths in circuit and wooden back boxes need to rewire that part .

Now an extension has been put on the house with about 15 downlights .I think they are class 2 but cant be sure , just a lamp holder on back .

these down lights have all been wired in flex . no way of re wiring these lights no access , my under standing is the flex ok to use but really there should be a earth in cable just incase the class 2 fittings get changed for class 1 .

Ps the socket circuit failed as well big time . need to rewire them as well .
 02 March 2013 08:53 PM
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DOUGIE1000

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ypu regardless of class I or class II then there should be a earth present anyway, to protect cable and even give us sparks something to test when were missing the neutral.

-------------------------
Dougie
Power Plus Electrical.co.uk

My mission is to live as long as possible......so far so good!
 02 March 2013 08:54 PM
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alanblaby

Posts: 343
Joined: 09 March 2012

Unless you have to rewire because of cable damage/deterioration, it is still acceptable to keep the unearthed lighting circuit, so long as it only contains Class 2 fittings.
Put the relevant sticker on the CU/fusebox, and make sure all the work you have done has no conductive parts that can be touched - back box screws into wood or plastic,or, if into metal, then screws should be nylon/plastic etc.
 02 March 2013 09:02 PM
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daveparry1

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Nothing wrong with wooden bacboxes is there?
 02 March 2013 09:49 PM
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Ampman

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Lighting circuits a mess ,it really is.

house is empty no carpets furniture etc...

Whilst its in empty state the client may as well spend a few hundred quid and i can have peace of mind .
 03 March 2013 12:31 AM
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DOUGIE1000

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Originally posted by: Ampman

Lighting circuits a mess ,it really is.

house is empty no carpets furniture etc...

Whilst its in empty state the client may as well spend a few hundred quid and i can have peace of mind .


no carpets, empty house, what you moaning for, surley an extra cost to your client?

-------------------------
Dougie
Power Plus Electrical.co.uk

My mission is to live as long as possible......so far so good!
 03 March 2013 05:53 AM
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ebee

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Originally posted by: DOUGIE1000

ypu regardless of class I or class II then there should be a earth present anyway, to protect cable and even give us sparks something to test when were missing the neutral.


Earth present to protect the cable?

Only if armoured/pyro etc ?
Not really protection for flex or T & E

-------------------------
Regards,
Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
 03 March 2013 08:11 AM
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Jaymack

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Originally posted by: ebee
Originally posted by: DOUGIE1000
ypu regardless of class I or class II then there should be a earth present anyway, to protect cable and even give us sparks something to test when were missing the neutral.

Earth present to protect the cable? Only if armoured/pyro etc ? Not really protection for flex or T & E

To clarify, it depends on the date of the installation, whether a CPC should have been installed!

A note should be stuck on the DB to warn against installing class I fittings, on any circuit where class II fittings are installed, and there is no CPC.

Regards
 03 March 2013 09:24 AM
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dg66

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Quite right Ebee, the CPC in a flex or T+E is for protection of the connected equipment, it has nothing to do with protecting the cable.

-------------------------
Regards

Dave(not Cockburn)
 03 March 2013 10:20 AM
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sparkiemike

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Originally posted by: daveparry1

Nothing wrong with wooden bacboxes is there?


If you are looking for a reg go have a look at item iii of Reg 526.5.

In a test according to BS 476-4, a specimen of building material is placed in a furnace at a temperature of 750 °C. For the specimen to be considered non-combustible, sustained flaming on it must not persist for more than 10 s and the consequent temperature rise in the furnace must not exceed 50 °C.


So it is how likley is it that your enclosure containing wood, would meet the criteria?
 03 March 2013 11:16 AM
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Jaymack

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Originally posted by: dg66
Quite right Ebee, the CPC in a flex or T+E is for protection of the connected equipment, it has nothing to do with protecting the cable.

So we don't need a CPC for class II equipment, as in continuance of the cable to the source? A CPC in this case, may just protect the cable from nails etc. Ask your assessor.

Regards
 03 March 2013 11:50 AM
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sparkiemike

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Originally posted by: Jaymack

So we don't need a CPC for class II equipment, as in continuance of the cable to the source? [IMG][/IMG] A CPC in this case, may just protect the cable from nails etc. Ask your assessor. [IMG][/IMG]

Regards


I see you use the word "may". The cpc in T&E and Flex is not there to provide protection for the cable as you would have to rely on LUCK for the screw or nail to make contact with a live conductor and the cpc. And if there are no RCDs a short between N and E would not cause the protective device to operate and would probably not be noticed for years. A screw could quite easily pierce the outer edge making contact with a Line conductor and in that particular example your cpc is not going to provide any protection. The only time the cpc is going to provide cable protection is where the outer sheath is metal e.g SWA, PYRO and steel conduit, which is why in regs 522.6.101 and 522.6.103 we have (i), (ii), and (iii)
 03 March 2013 11:53 AM
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ebee

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Metal conduit as a cpc might well protect the cable from nails etc but not the cpc in a flex or T & E my friend Jaymack

-------------------------
Regards,
Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
 03 March 2013 01:12 PM
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Jaymack

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Originally posted by: ebee
Metal conduit as a cpc might well protect the cable from nails etc but not the cpc in a flex or T & E my friend Jaymack

There is a difference between mechanical and electrical protection. Bounce it off your assessor! A cable without a CPC is more dangerous than one with, whether or not there is an RCD present.

Regards
 03 March 2013 01:18 PM
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Jaymack

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Originally posted by: sparkiemike
I see you use the word "may". The cpc in T&E and Flex is not there to provide protection for the cable

Bounce it off your assessor!

Regards
 03 March 2013 01:26 PM
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dg66

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Originally posted by: Jaymack

Originally posted by: dg66

Quite right Ebee, the CPC in a flex or T+E is for protection of the connected equipment, it has nothing to do with protecting the cable.


So we don't need a CPC for class II equipment, as in continuance of the cable to the source? [IMG][/IMG] A CPC in this case, may just protect the cable from nails etc. Ask your assessor. [IMG][/IMG]



Regards

I dont think i said class II equipment didnt need a CPC ( the regs require a CPC at every point ), but i did say i agree with Ebee ,that the CPC in flex or T+E is to provide protection for the equipment as it offers no protection to the cable.Look at the CABLE DAMAGE thread and tell us what protection to the cable the CPC offered.Disregard the comment that the RCD must have tripped as that is speculation.

-------------------------
Regards

Dave(not Cockburn)
 03 March 2013 01:43 PM
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sparkiemike

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Originally posted by: Jaymack

Bounce it off your assessor! [IMG][/IMG]

Regards


Because the accessor says so does not make it right. If my accessor said that to me I would challenge him on it.
 03 March 2013 01:52 PM
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jsa986

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Jaymack I dont think the assessors are the last word in electrical regulations, I caught mine out on an assessment who was completely wrong, it was discussed on here a while back

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 03 March 2013 02:19 PM
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Jaymack

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Originally posted by: jsa986
Jaymack I dont think the assessors are the last word in electrical regulations, I caught mine out on an assessment who was completely wrong, it was discussed on here a while back

Agreed they don't walk on water, they are mere mortals like us yins; but bounce nevertheless!

Regards
 03 March 2013 02:27 PM
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Jaymack

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Originally posted by: dg66
the CPC in flex or T+E is to provide protection for the equipment as it offers no protection to the cable.

It does offer protection albeit electrical, which I'm sure you must agree is preferable. As I say ....... bouncy, bouncy


Regards
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