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Topic Title: Two questions: Go easy please :)
Topic Summary: Chartered Comp Engineer -> Home electrician Certified..?
Created On: 28 February 2013 01:29 PM
Status: Post and Reply
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 28 February 2013 03:25 PM
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SherlockOhms

Posts: 325
Joined: 05 April 2011

Now now children, play nicely !
 28 February 2013 03:27 PM
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OMS

Posts: 19747
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I am now a Commercial Director, so my wish for value for money can be over zealous I admit, but asking for more detail on a poor quote is clearly unacceptable, based on the reactions of some, but a requirement for me as the basics for any trades person.


If that's aimed at me Paul, then I suggest you go back and read your original post - and do that in the context of not knowing who your audience is.

If I came to you for an IT package and proceeded to claim in a public forum full of IT professionals that the IT sector charge excessive prices for what any reasonably intelligent person could DIY how would you react ?

It appears to me that you didn't ask for more detail on a poor quote from the only person who could answer that question

regards

OMS

-------------------------
Failure is always an option
 28 February 2013 03:30 PM
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AJJewsbury

Posts: 11553
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a simple honest response to not do the work would be more professional.

I agree - life would be so much simpler if that were the case. I gather though that many take the attitude they don't want to turn work down (never knowing what tomorrow will bring) so it's a case of they'll take the work if you make it worth their while - i.e. in extreme cases - if you want them to do the work when they're already busy then they'll work late/weekends/get someone extra in/whatever it takes to get the job done, but it'll cost. If only the 'rules of the bazzar' where the same b2b, b2c etc as they are on the highstreet - but I guess that's what makes life "interesting"!
- Andy.
 28 February 2013 03:33 PM
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BrucieBonus

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OK - an honest answer for you. I'll price high(er) if I think the customer is going to be a PITA and the job is going to take longer/be more difficult because of this.

best of luck!
 28 February 2013 03:42 PM
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mannpaul

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Fair enough, just guess I was more honest with my clients than some are today. I found that honestly brought the customers back later, rather than doubling the price, knowing you were ripping them off.

Asking for clarity in some industries shows a level of professionalism to do a good job, to be worth the premium, thats what I am familiar with, but no response and tuff, take it or leave it attitude is clearly more prevalent in other trades.

You're right though, far to simple if it was like that everywhere
 28 February 2013 03:47 PM
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mannpaul

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Originally posted by: BrucieBonus

OK - an honest answer for you. I'll price high(er) if I think the customer is going to be a PITA and the job is going to take longer/be more difficult because of this.



best of luck!


Thats what you meant in your earlier post isn't it, you just said it sarcastically.

Interesting you see asking for clarity on XX pounds one line quote as being a PITA. They clearly did too; seems common place, hence rather do the work myself and let the others find business elsewhere; no luck required.

As I say, I didn't realise the forum was for non members, as I was directed from my paid account with the IET.
 28 February 2013 03:48 PM
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normcall

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Just a thought.
We are all assuming that the work quoted for was as straightforward as the OP suggested.
It maybe bonding/earthing/RCD all may doing or even additional circuits etc. We have all been to the 5 minute job only to find no ring, neutral fault etc.

-------------------------
Norman
 28 February 2013 04:23 PM
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mannpaul

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Norman, the work was discussed at our home, so I believe the scope was as basic as I stated, but getting that confirmed by the electrician is clearly me being a PITA.

Not sure why I would waste my time posting and asking for valued input if I stated the job was half what it was?
 28 February 2013 04:42 PM
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AJJewsbury

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Fair enough, just guess I was more honest with my clients than some are today. I found that honestly brought the customers back later, rather than doubling the price, knowing you were ripping them off.

I think BrucieBonus's point was that they're attempting to take account the extra time etc they anticipate the job will actually take - so "rip-off" might be a bit strong.

I didn't realise the forum was for non members

But presumably an honest man would be happy to stand by his words no matter who overheard them? Enough said. I feel the various holes are more than deep enough now, shall we all stop digging?

You've actually stumbled on a veritable gold-mine of technical electrical knowledge here - I suggest you make the most of it! Probably more productive if we stick to technical issues - are you aware of the new requirements for 30mA protection for new sockets and concealed cables for instance?

- Andy.
 28 February 2013 05:13 PM
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mannpaul

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Originally posted by: AJJewsbury

Fair enough, just guess I was more honest with my clients than some are today. I found that honestly brought the customers back later, rather than doubling the price, knowing you were ripping them off.


I think BrucieBonus's point was that they're attempting to take account the extra time etc they anticipate the job will actually take - so "rip-off" might be a bit strong.


I wasn't referring to his post at all.


I didn't realise the forum was for non members


But presumably an honest man would be happy to stand by his words no matter who overheard them? Enough said. I feel the various holes are more than deep enough now, shall we all stop digging?


Nothing to do with honesty; that is taken as red. Instead I know there is a minimum level of professionalism and respect with IET members that may not be the case in an open forum.

You've actually stumbled on a veritable gold-mine of technical electrical knowledge here

I suggest you make the most of it!


Thats as maybe but the baggage that goes with it means I'll feedback to the IET and go elsewhere.

I pay for these information resources from the IET as part of my ever increasing chartered membership fees, nothing stumbled, so I'll go back to them and ask for other resources that may help, that don't treat newcomers like idiots and people who ask questions as PITA's.

Probably more productive if we stick to technical issues - are you aware of the new requirements for 30mA protection for new sockets and concealed cables for instance?



- Andy.
 28 February 2013 05:20 PM
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microy

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Manpaul.
I suggest that you do it yourself and then get the electrician back to do it properly. (At a higher cost).
Mike.
 28 February 2013 05:21 PM
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rocknroll

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Thats as maybe but the baggage that goes with it means I'll feedback to the IET and go elsewhere.


Oh dear, you lot have done it again, can't take you anywhere!!!

regards

-------------------------
"Take nothing but a picture,
leave nothing but footprints!"
-------------------------
"Oh! The drama of it all."
-------------------------
"You can throw all the philosophy you like at the problem, but at the end of the day it's just basic electrical theory!"
-------------------------
 28 February 2013 05:25 PM
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Colin Jenkins

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Hello Mannpaul.

Replacing electrical accessories is "non notifiable", whether in a special location or otherwise.

If you are confident in this work, you may do it yourself. If you need a sparks it won't need to come under the Part P malarky so LBC fees should not be an issue. The sparks will do a Minor Installation Certification on completion.

I hope this helps.

Regards,

Colin Jenkins.
 28 February 2013 05:27 PM
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AJJewsbury

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I pay for these information resources from the IET as part of my ever increasing chartered membership fees, nothing stumbled

That's my point - although the Forum system is provided (very generously) by the IET, the actual information within is provided by a much much wider range of people - and on a purely voluntary basis too.

As you will....


- Andy.
 28 February 2013 05:28 PM
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mannpaul

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Originally posted by: microy

Manpaul.

I suggest that you do it yourself and then get the electrician back to do it properly. (At a higher cost).

Mike.


Minimum level of professionalism and respect
 28 February 2013 05:30 PM
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AJJewsbury

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Replacing electrical accessories is "non notifiable", whether in a special location or otherwise.

OP also said "and one extra wall of sockets and under cupboard lighting that doesn't already exist. "
- Andy.
 28 February 2013 05:30 PM
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mannpaul

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Originally posted by: Colin Jenkins

Hello Mannpaul.



Replacing electrical accessories is "non notifiable", whether in a special location or otherwise.



If you are confident in this work, you may do it yourself. If you need a sparks it won't need to come under the Part P malarky so LBC fees should not be an issue. The sparks will do a Minor Installation Certification on completion.



I hope this helps.



Regards,



Colin Jenkins.


Thanks Colin that helps, cheers.
 28 February 2013 05:36 PM
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mannpaul

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Originally posted by: AJJewsbury

Replacing electrical accessories is "non notifiable", whether in a special location or otherwise.


OP also said "and one extra wall of sockets and under cupboard lighting that doesn't already exist. "

- Andy.


I did Andy and will likely do the smaller swap outs myself, now that I know they can be done without notification and prep as much of the other as I can without making the connection.

While chatting with IET colleagues for sparkles that would charge to make the connection and test.
 28 February 2013 05:37 PM
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microy

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Manpaul.

"Minimum level of professionalism and respect"

As you showed to your electrician?

Mike
 28 February 2013 05:38 PM
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OMS

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Thanks Colin that helps, cheers.


Be careful of advice from an open forum Paul - you also have electrical works that involves the provision of new circuits/outlets etc - that would certainly be notifiable (under the current arrangements) and may well trigger additional protection by 30mA RCD as a part of the wiring regulations requirements.

OMS

-------------------------
Failure is always an option
IET » Wiring and the regulations » Two questions: Go easy please :)

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