IET logo
 
IET
Decrease font size
Increase font size
Locked Topic Locked
Topic Title: Two questions: Go easy please :)
Topic Summary: Chartered Comp Engineer -> Home electrician Certified..?
Created On: 28 February 2013 01:29 PM
Status: Post and Reply
Linear : Threading : Single : Branch
1 2 3 4 Next Last unread
Search Topic Search Topic
Topic Tools Topic Tools
View similar topics View similar topics
View topic in raw text format. Print this topic.
 28 February 2013 01:29 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



mannpaul

Posts: 20
Joined: 06 January 2010

Hi all

Just wondering if I could do minimal training to do some home electrical work on a kitchen refurb, or i have to pay the excessive charges electricians seem to want

Otherwise, is there an IET resource for fellow engineers to swap services at reduced rates? (not recommendations)

Cheers and Thanks
Paul.
 28 February 2013 01:39 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



normcall

Posts: 8124
Joined: 15 January 2005

You'll be pleased to know you can do exactly what you want, how you want and when you want.
The words competent electrician are the key, closely followed by building regulations.
Several parts of the building regulations come into play with regard to refurbishing a kitchen - not just electrics but plumbing and ventilation to name but a couple more. It just depends on what is there and what is intended to be there. Some bits just need to comply and others need to be notified and inspected.

Nothing complicated - even I can do it!

-------------------------
Norman
 28 February 2013 01:42 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for OMS.
OMS

Posts: 19628
Joined: 23 March 2004

Originally posted by: mannpaul

Hi all



Just wondering if I could do minimal training to do some home electrical work on a kitchen refurb,

You don't need any training but the work is probably notifiable under part P of the building regulations to building control and you may have a job convincing them you are competent


or i have to pay the excessive charges electricians seem to want

I see - and i bet you are in the habit of offering computer advice to total strangers for free then Paul - if you value your time, respect that others value thiers


Otherwise, is there an IET resource for fellow engineers to swap services at reduced rates? (not recommendations)

Not that I'm aware of

Cheers and Thanks

Paul.


Regards

OMS

-------------------------
Failure is always an option
 28 February 2013 01:44 PM
User is online View Users Profile Print this message



AJJewsbury

Posts: 11387
Joined: 13 August 2003

Simplest thing is to wait a while - from April the requirement for building regs notification for electrical work in kitchens is being dropped (unless you're creating a new circuit or changing the consumer unit etc).

If you need to do it sooner you're quite free to do it yourself, as Norm says, but the building control notification will cost you - in my area it's around £200!

- Andy.
 28 February 2013 01:49 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



mannpaul

Posts: 20
Joined: 06 January 2010

Hi Norman

I've done the plumbing and ventilation (needed a whole in the wall) and am now down to swapping white for chrome socket fronts, connecting (cable there) an induction hob and one extra wall of sockets and under cupboard lighting that doesn't already exist.

I believed kitchen work had to be certified, which is why I am a little cautious.

I wanted to do the work like a trainee and get a qualified electrician to certify it for me :-) (or certify me!)

Cheers.

ps OMS? was there supposed to be a response?
 28 February 2013 01:54 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for OMS.
OMS

Posts: 19628
Joined: 23 March 2004

ps OMS? was there supposed to be a response?


Other than my response amongst your quote identified in italics you mean ?

regards

OMS

-------------------------
Failure is always an option
 28 February 2013 01:56 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



mannpaul

Posts: 20
Joined: 06 January 2010

Hi Andy

Thats a useful snippet of information, thanks. No rush, after April would be fine, as its likely I wont have all the kitchen finished until then anyway.

So If I've had a quote from a decent electrician in my area that I thought was damn high for the work being done, is that likely to do with the 200 he would have to pay for building regs notification?

Is that per job that 200 pounds?

If that comes off then his quote is reasonable.
 28 February 2013 01:56 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



SherlockOhms

Posts: 322
Joined: 05 April 2011





I wanted to do the work like a trainee and get a qualified electrician to certify it for me :-) (or certify me!)



Do you think this has any bearing on the excesive charges you've been quoted?
 28 February 2013 01:59 PM
User is online View Users Profile Print this message



AJJewsbury

Posts: 11387
Joined: 13 August 2003

I believed kitchen work had to be certified, which is why I am a little cautious.

The legal bit is for building regs certification (rather than wiring regs, although the former often demands the latter). Unless you are a member of one of the appropriate building regs competent persons schemes (as distinct from just being competent!), you're required to notify (usually your local council's building control dept.) before starting work (48 hrs before I think). Try here: http://www.planningportal.gov....cuments/partp/approved for the details.
- Andy.
 28 February 2013 02:02 PM
User is online View Users Profile Print this message



AJJewsbury

Posts: 11387
Joined: 13 August 2003

So If I've had a quote from a decent electrician in my area that I thought was damn high for the work being done, is that likely to do with the 200 he would have to pay for building regs notification?

Is that per job that 200 pounds?

If that comes off then his quote is reasonable.

If he's a member of one of the competent persons scheme, then he can "self-certify" through their scheme - so it only costs them a few quid to do. They do have to pay to be members of the scheme (many hundreds of pounds a year) so will undoubtedly pass a proportion of that to you has part of their general overheads.

- Andy.
 28 February 2013 02:03 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



mannpaul

Posts: 20
Joined: 06 January 2010

OMS

I see, i did indeed miss the italics, apologies.

That said, your response to my comment on the pricing is uncalled for, as I don't ever recall stating I wanted the work done for free or that I don't value their time. I just want a decent service for a decent profitable wage, that doesn't mean no quote, just a figure on a cigarette packet being as seen as satisfactory to start work.

'I see - and i bet you are in the habit of offering computer advice to total strangers for free then Paul - if you value your time, respect that others value thiers'
 28 February 2013 02:05 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for OMS.
OMS

Posts: 19628
Joined: 23 March 2004

So If I've had a quote from a decent electrician in my area that I thought was damn high for the work being done, is that likely to do with the 200 he would have to pay for building regs notification?


If he's in one of the "self certification" bodies then no, he won't be paying 200 quid a time as he's paying more than that per year for the right to self certify as many jobs as he likes (or wins)

The £200 is for your local BCO officer to trot down and ask you if your competent and to receive from you BS 7671 certification for the works before he either accepts it or orders a third party assesment of what you've done before signing it off.

Regards

OMS

-------------------------
Failure is always an option
 28 February 2013 02:07 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



mannpaul

Posts: 20
Joined: 06 January 2010

Not clear what you mean.

The quote was for all work done by the electrician in this instance.

I'm just not sure it takes a day to swap 5 double fronted existing sockets for 5 chrome ones....that I am supplying.

Hence the reason I felt I could do it myself....

Edit: Thanks Andy, will do some more reading... checking if those requirements change for list buildings?

Edited: 28 February 2013 at 02:29 PM by mannpaul
 28 February 2013 02:31 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for OMS.
OMS

Posts: 19628
Joined: 23 March 2004

Originally posted by: mannpaul

Not clear what you mean.

The quote was for all work done by the electrician in this instance.

I'm just not sure it takes a day to swap 5 double fronted existing sockets for 5 chrome ones....that I am supplying.


Hence the reason I felt I could do it myself....


But you also wanted :

am now down to swapping white for chrome socket fronts, connecting (cable there) an induction hob and one extra wall of sockets and under cupboard lighting that doesn't already exist.


and you thought the cost was :

the excessive charges electricians seem to want


but when reduced by £200.00 then you thought the cost was:

If that comes off then his quote is reasonable.


So, for that kind of jobbing work plus notification I deduce the quote is circa £300 - £400 - which is about a reasonable day rate for a skilled man running a business, plus a bit of materials for the work you haven't yet done plus testing and certification and notification.

DIY by all means - if you get stuck just ask on here, plenty willing to help you - claiming your electrician wants an excessive cost is bound to get a response on a forum full of electricians though, don't you think.

Regards

OMS

-------------------------
Failure is always an option
 28 February 2013 02:33 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



BrucieBonus

Posts: 666
Joined: 20 February 2007

mmmm, me thinks he might have priced 'high' as he didn't want to do the work???
 28 February 2013 02:43 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



mannpaul

Posts: 20
Joined: 06 January 2010

Your micro analysis of my responses is interesting.

Perhaps I am not explaining myself correctly.

1) I asked for a fully inclusive quote and got one, me doing nothing apart from build the kitchen.

This IS expensive compared to the other work they have done for me. I am trying to understand why.

2) I moved on to think I could do the work myself, as its clearly straight forward swapping faceplates?

As for suggesting discussing the price on a IET forum full of IET members was a silly thing to do, I find quite staggering.

Your immediate response was aggressive around price, so clearly expecting a civilised discussion from fellow members was me being naive.

Edit, Double the lower value.

BrucieBonus: Thanks for the constructive comment, it helps a lot.

I'm staggered by the tone of responses of some, clearly my computing training with the IEE took a different path.

Thanks for others helpful input.

Edited: 28 February 2013 at 02:49 PM by mannpaul
 28 February 2013 02:57 PM
User is online View Users Profile Print this message



AJJewsbury

Posts: 11387
Joined: 13 August 2003

Your immediate response was aggressive around price, so clearly expecting a civilised discussion from fellow members was me being naive.

Please don't take offence - while many replies here are often "direct" - it's very rare that anyone here intends to be aggressive or offensive! (Like many text media, the forum can suffer from a lack of context that's traditionally indicated by subtle tone of voice or body language, which emoticons can't really substitute for). I suspect OMS was just trying to point out that, given their overheads, the cost of employing an electrician can justifiably be higher than many people imagine - that's all.

BTW we're not all IET members here!

- Andy.
 28 February 2013 03:14 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



mannpaul

Posts: 20
Joined: 06 January 2010

Thanks Andy for the polite tone and explanation, but being a CEng Computer person for 25 years, I really don't need a lecture of the value of someones business, or that the business would run for free.

I am now a Commercial Director, so my wish for value for money can be over zealous I admit, but asking for more detail on a poor quote is clearly unacceptable, based on the reactions of some, but a requirement for me as the basics for any trades person. Clearly over pricing unwanted work is common place, when a simple honest response to not do the work would be more professional.

I didn't realise the forum was open to non members, so I apologies for not knowing my audience better before I posted.
 28 February 2013 03:17 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for OMS.
OMS

Posts: 19628
Joined: 23 March 2004

As for suggesting discussing the price on a IET forum full of IET members was a silly thing to do, I find quite staggering.


Really - you didn't discuss the price - you just stated it was an excessive charge the electrician seemed to want.

Your immediate response was aggressive around price, so clearly expecting a civilised discussion from fellow members was me being naive.


Not really - I told you you didn't need training and building control notification was likley

I then suggested to you that if you valued your time, why are you suprised that others wouldn't thiers.

You actually missed totally my response in the first instance anyway

If you want a civilised discussion (and presumably some help) no problem - just remember it's not all members on here and a big percentage of contributors are electricians

Regards

OMS

-------------------------
Failure is always an option
 28 February 2013 03:23 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



mannpaul

Posts: 20
Joined: 06 January 2010

More lectures and what I said you said conversations are not why I came here.

No offense meant if I ignore your posts and concentrate on others that have taken the time to help and refer me to further reading.
IET » Wiring and the regulations » Two questions: Go easy please :)

1 2 3 4 Next Last unread
Topic Tools Topic Tools
Statistics

See Also:



FuseTalk Standard Edition v3.2 - © 1999-2014 FuseTalk Inc. All rights reserved.