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Topic Title: downlighters wired in flex
Topic Summary: rewire?
Created On: 21 February 2013 08:06 PM
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 21 February 2013 08:06 PM
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davettherave

Posts: 38
Joined: 06 May 2012

ive just inspected some downlighters in a flat wired in flex and earths etc cut out as usual.

couldnt test zs

what code should i give this?
 21 February 2013 08:12 PM
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daveparry1

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Are the lamps class 1 or class 2 then?
 21 February 2013 08:25 PM
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davettherave

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gu 10 fittings not fire rated either
 21 February 2013 08:28 PM
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daveparry1

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But are they class 2 therefore not requiring an earth connection?
 21 February 2013 08:35 PM
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davettherave

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yes lets asume they are class 2.
 21 February 2013 08:36 PM
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davettherave

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or lets assume? quote to i replace them with a class 2 fitting!
 21 February 2013 09:43 PM
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Martynduerden

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Originally posted by: davettherave

ive just inspected some downlighters in a flat wired in flex and earths etc cut out as usual.

couldnt test zs

what code should i give this?


No issue with flex its permitted in the 17th.

Most down lights don't require an earth but the cables do. code 1.

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 21 February 2013 10:22 PM
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davettherave

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cant place label stating no cpc lighting circuit and code 3 then?
 21 February 2013 10:27 PM
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davettherave

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what about best practice guide 2 page 6 & 7?
 21 February 2013 10:37 PM
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dickllewellyn

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If the fittings are class two, then no code in my book. Probably didn't have twin flex on the van, so,used three core and cut the cpc off.

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Richard (Dick)

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 21 February 2013 11:15 PM
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Martynduerden

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Originally posted by: davettherave

cant place label stating no cpc lighting circuit and code 3 then?


No. It has a floating cpc, which could actually be more dangerous than no cpc.

Like I say It's a code 1 for the cable being installed outside manufacturers spec, cpc not connected to the end of the circuit.

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 22 February 2013 07:07 AM
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Jaymack

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Originally posted by: Martynduerden
Like I say It's a code 1 for the cable being installed outside manufacturers spec, cpc not connected to the end of the circuit.

The CPC if present on the feed cable to a class II fitting, and connected to the earth bar ensures that the cable is protected throughout it's length, and the means of obtaining Zs. Otherwise there is no code, but what code for the inspector here?.

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 22 February 2013 07:14 AM
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ebee

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Isn`t code 1 a tadd severe?

Why was flex a no no on fixed wiring until quite recently?

and what has changed since to make it now acceptable?

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Ebee (M I S P N)

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 22 February 2013 07:21 AM
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dickllewellyn

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Originally posted by: ebee
and what has changed since to make it now acceptable?


Our European cousins use it!

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Richard (Dick)

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 22 February 2013 08:21 AM
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broadgage

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A code 1 seems OTT, surely a code 1 is for immediate danger ?
What immediate danger is there in a class 2 fitting not being earthed ?

I grant that the CPC in the flex should be earthed, but would consider the ommision of such to be very low risk indeed as the flex is presumably out of reach and at little risk of damage.

Code 3 if any IMHO.
 22 February 2013 09:54 AM
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Martynduerden

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Originally posted by: broadgage

A code 1 seems OTT, surely a code 1 is for immediate danger ?

What immediate danger is there in a class 2 fitting not being earthed ?

I grant that the CPC in the flex should be earthed, but would consider the ommision of such to be very low risk indeed as the flex is presumably out of reach and at little risk of damage.

Code 3 if any IMHO.


I don't make the regs, an electrician may well get a shock from that section of unconnected cpc.

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Martyn.

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 22 February 2013 10:10 AM
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AJJewsbury

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an electrician may well get a shock from that section of unconnected cpc.

How would that work? Capacitive coupling producing >10mA?

Is it any more dangerous than the 'floating' strapper in a 2-way switching system when both switches are in the same position?

.. or a switch wire with the lamp removed?

- Andy.
 22 February 2013 11:47 AM
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jsa986

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@Davethehrave why are you "assuming class two" have you not checked? You also state they are not fire rated but have not stated if they are ground floor or upstairs? plus fire rating is building regs not electrical, some advice rather than code may be sensible here

@ Mertyuereden, no one is saying you make the regs, the others are simply telling you no earth to class two fitting is hardly a code 1 (immediate danger) and I have to agree

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 22 February 2013 12:30 PM
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MrP

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All points of utilisation should be earthed irrespective whether class 1or2 the thought behind if the class 2 fittings get changed to class 1 therefore non compliance.
Wiring method flexible cable no problem, interesting how final connection made if daisy chained getting two flexible cables into one terminal, fitting designed to accept two cables? Possibly non compliance.
What code ? does it matter as long as you have produced a report it's not a numbers game the codes are a guide to the report make your own numbers game up, call it a 5C that will get them thinking
it's a non compliance
MrP Going home in 6days
 22 February 2013 01:26 PM
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broadgage

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I would agree that points of utilisation should be earthed, to allow for future changes. But I would also consider the absence of this earth to be a minor non-compliance IF class 2 fittings are used.

I would still say code 3, non compliant but not actually dangerous.

Just like an old lighting circuit with no CPC, but all plastic fittings.
IET » Wiring and the regulations » downlighters wired in flex

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