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Topic Title: Electrical design options
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Created On: 19 February 2013 01:19 PM
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 19 February 2013 01:19 PM
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Scalo

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Joined: 19 February 2013

Hi all, I am currently working as an Electrician, looking to transition to electrical design stream. I have just completed my HNC in Electrical/Electronics.

Any assistance will be greatly appreciated
 19 February 2013 01:57 PM
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vesuvius

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The best advice would be to get down to your local college or university and ask to speak with a careers adviser. You should be able to use your HNC as a bridger course to get onto another course which will suit the direction you would like to take your career in.

If your still working as an electrician you could possibly look at some kind of distance learning programmes to fit your study around your work life.

Good luck.
 19 February 2013 02:00 PM
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OMS

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I'm presuming you are looking for something related to building design or building services engineering.

Dos the firm you currently work for have any design capability would be the starting point - or do they work for contractors that do.

You then have all the usual suspects in the consultancy areana - a quick browse through things like the buulding services journal would give you a starting point.

Client roles are perhaps a little more difficult to access - but again, it;;s a case of ear to the ground and google is also useful.

If your HNC didn't have much in the way of BS 7671 involved in it, consider a C&G 2396 by way of an introduction to the design side of the business.

There are jobs out there, the pay won't be brilliant until you have some experience and develop into a more trusted pair of hands - there'll be days when you wish you hadn't bothered and being a spark has certain attractions.

If you do go into consultancy or similar as an electrical designer, remember that we have simple rule based systems (when compared to the mechanical chaps) - a good understanding of mechanical building services will do wonders for your career so consider that as well - you also need to look into specific and training for fire alarms and emergency lighting - and if you have an interest in lighting design, that's useful as well.

All that for £22k a year - it's not a choice you are going to make easily I'm afraid, but good luck with it

Regards

OMS

-------------------------
Failure is always an option
 19 February 2013 04:55 PM
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Scalo

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Thanks for all the advise I do appreciate it.
 19 February 2013 09:28 PM
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Martynduerden

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Originally posted by: OMS

All that for £22k a year - it's not a choice you are going to make easily I'm afraid, but good luck with it

Regards

OMS


I reckon I'd do 23k a year for you OMS if your up for a pay rise

-------------------------
Regards

Martyn.

Only a mediocre person is always at their best



www.electrical contractors uk.com
 19 February 2013 10:11 PM
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UKPN

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23k? more like 13k judging by his mains posts this week!

Regards
 19 February 2013 10:34 PM
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Martynduerden

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Originally posted by: UKPN

23k? more like 13k judging by his mains posts this week!



Regards


I'm sure he can defend himself but must you always resort to insults?

-------------------------
Regards

Martyn.

Only a mediocre person is always at their best



www.electrical contractors uk.com
 20 February 2013 12:04 AM
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Legh

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Originally posted by: Martynduerden

Originally posted by: UKPN

23k? more like 13k judging by his mains posts this week!

Regards


I'm sure he can defend himself but must you always resort to insults?


He's not being insulting - just being himself .................

If 22k is all that's available in the building services arena, then i would suggest taking your talents into the teaching profession, its almost the same without the cutthroat attitude that appears to reside in the industry.

There again you'll have to contend with all the professional jealousies, back stabbing, one upmanships, snipes, constant deadline hassles, stage performances, etc .......

Legh

-------------------------
Why do we need Vernier Calipers when we have container ships?

http://www.leghrichardson.co.uk

"Science has overcome time and space. Well, Harvey has overcome not only time and space - but any objections."
 20 February 2013 02:03 AM
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Martynduerden

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In reality it has to be more than 22k that's just over 400 / week or £80 / day which is labourers money in this neck of the woods...

I know employees get paid holidays, ssp, pension etc etc but surely a BSE needs to be on at least 30k ?

-------------------------
Regards

Martyn.

Only a mediocre person is always at their best



www.electrical contractors uk.com
 20 February 2013 08:06 AM
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chris1982

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Originally posted by: Martynduerden

In reality it has to be more than 22k that's just over 400 / week or £80 / day which is labourers money in this neck of the woods...



I know employees get paid holidays, ssp, pension etc etc but surely a BSE needs to be on at least 30k ?


i was thinking that 22k a year seemed a bit low....
 20 February 2013 09:04 AM
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oshta

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I guess it depends, know of graduate engineers starting out on not much more!
 20 February 2013 10:08 AM
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MickeyB

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The route i took after my ONC was to enrol on a BEng(hons) degree course. A few guys had HNC's.
The main drawback is a drop in income during term time, but suplemented during holidays.

I went abroad after i graduated for a couple of years...... get some good exposure....make some mistakes....that no one will hear about.

come back with a full CV...... the salary you can get after graduation in London would be mid to late 20's....
After a couple of years you could get mid 40's

if you specialize in say data centres top dollar is 65k.

i got out about 4 years ago..... when rates went back to 2003 rates.....
Rates are still around 30 per hour..... you won't be working for the money....
. that's for sure....
 20 February 2013 10:12 AM
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rocknroll

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Originally posted by: Martynduerden

In reality it has to be more than 22k that's just over 400 / week or £80 / day which is labourers money in this neck of the woods...

22k is in the right area, has it not always been the case that 90% of people who enter into construction related trades just get the basic skills done and then get out there into the contracting sector because thats where the money is, to be honest I was probably going to do the same, after two and a half years through my M&E apprenticeship I ditched it all and went to Manchester, meeting up with a couple of colleagues a number of years later who at the time carried on through their apprenticeship they were earning two to three times what I was even with the extra bits of paper I had gained.

I know employees get paid holidays, ssp, pension etc etc but surely a BSE needs to be on at least 30k ?

And then a few years down the line when those aches and pains appear in the knees and backs and the mental attitude to money, people and the establishment fester everybody starts to dream about that regular job with all the benefits and wish they had gone that extra mile in their youth. It's never too late you know!!!!!!!!


regards

-------------------------
"Take nothing but a picture,
leave nothing but footprints!"
-------------------------
"Oh! The drama of it all."
-------------------------
"You can throw all the philosophy you like at the problem, but at the end of the day it's just basic electrical theory!"
-------------------------

Edited: 20 February 2013 at 10:57 AM by rocknroll
 20 February 2013 11:08 AM
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OMS

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Originally posted by: UKPN

23k? more like 13k judging by his mains posts this week!

Regards


LoL - so which bit of my "mains" post don't you think is worth the extra money then ?

OMS

-------------------------
Failure is always an option
 20 February 2013 01:02 PM
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OMS

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OK - to put this into context:

1 - I wouldn't be paying more than about £22K for a completely inexperienced junior engineer straight from a degree course or with an installation background and a HND - it's the experience that adds the value

2 - Given a year or two (less for the electrician, more for the graduate) I would be looking for evidence of 3 things - an ability to deal with small projects in a client facing role, evidence of continuing technical development and an ability to engage with the wider design team - can you jump on a CAD machine on a friday evening, will you talk to the mechanical engineer and determine the electrical input to the mech services - expected salary - mid twenties to high twenties and looking to become an intermediate with at least Eng Tech registration.

3 - A few more years of growing into an intermediate role - client facing, running small projects, key team member on bigger projects - delagating tasks to new juniors, cad etc. Salary increase by negotiation from high twenties to high thirties

4 - Chartered, senior role - £40 - 45 starting role, car allowance, other benefits - complete project delivery or high technical input to big projects.

Now comes the crux - stay technical or go management - it will make a big difference in salary package - you'll reach an upper limit if you stay technical, you'll earn more if you go into technical management or diversify out into other similar roles

Think of it like being at the top of a short ladder - that's where being an electrician takes you - sometimes you need to climb back down and go up a much taller ladder that has various branches on it - sky's the limit


Regards

OMS

-------------------------
Failure is always an option
 20 February 2013 05:15 PM
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amandalewin

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Originally posted by: OMS

OK - to put this into context:



1 - I wouldn't be paying more than about £22K for a completely inexperienced junior engineer straight from a degree course or with an installation background and a HND - it's the experience that adds the value



2 - Given a year or two (less for the electrician, more for the graduate) I would be looking for evidence of 3 things - an ability to deal with small projects in a client facing role, evidence of continuing technical development and an ability to engage with the wider design team - can you jump on a CAD machine on a friday evening, will you talk to the mechanical engineer and determine the electrical input to the mech services - expected salary - mid twenties to high twenties and looking to become an intermediate with at least Eng Tech registration.



3 - A few more years of growing into an intermediate role - client facing, running small projects, key team member on bigger projects - delagating tasks to new juniors, cad etc. Salary increase by negotiation from high twenties to high thirties



4 - Chartered, senior role - £40 - 45 starting role, car allowance, other benefits - complete project delivery or high technical input to big projects.



Now comes the crux - stay technical or go management - it will make a big difference in salary package - you'll reach an upper limit if you stay technical, you'll earn more if you go into technical management or diversify out into other similar roles



Think of it like being at the top of a short ladder - that's where being an electrician takes you - sometimes you need to climb back down and go up a much taller ladder that has various branches on it - sky's the limit





Regards



OMS


Great summary OMS, I seem to be stuck at 2.5 tho

-------------------------
Amanda

'At some point we all must chose between what is right and what is awesome'
 20 February 2013 05:35 PM
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Parsley

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Originally posted by: amandalewin

Originally posted by: OMS



OK - to put this into context:







1 - I wouldn't be paying more than about £22K for a completely inexperienced junior engineer straight from a degree course or with an installation background and a HND - it's the experience that adds the value







2 - Given a year or two (less for the electrician, more for the graduate) I would be looking for evidence of 3 things - an ability to deal with small projects in a client facing role, evidence of continuing technical development and an ability to engage with the wider design team - can you jump on a CAD machine on a friday evening, will you talk to the mechanical engineer and determine the electrical input to the mech services - expected salary - mid twenties to high twenties and looking to become an intermediate with at least Eng Tech registration.







3 - A few more years of growing into an intermediate role - client facing, running small projects, key team member on bigger projects - delagating tasks to new juniors, cad etc. Salary increase by negotiation from high twenties to high thirties







4 - Chartered, senior role - £40 - 45 starting role, car allowance, other benefits - complete project delivery or high technical input to big projects.







Now comes the crux - stay technical or go management - it will make a big difference in salary package - you'll reach an upper limit if you stay technical, you'll earn more if you go into technical management or diversify out into other similar roles







Think of it like being at the top of a short ladder - that's where being an electrician takes you - sometimes you need to climb back down and go up a much taller ladder that has various branches on it - sky's the limit











Regards







OMS




Great summary OMS, I seem to be stuck at 2.5 tho


Maybe you chance allegiance and work for a D&B contractor the rewards may be better.

Regards
 20 February 2013 05:50 PM
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OMS

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Things are tough in consultancy Amanda - fees down anything up to 45% on 2008 levels - and I recall you went to Madchester from the city so regional salaries are always going to be less lucrative.

If you are stuck in a graduate position (and believe me, as an industry we do have a bad habit of letting good people fester there because they are cheap to own) then perhaps start looking at a bit of diversification - can you jump on the back of what your BREEAM people are doing, what about something like the LIF courses and become a bit of a lighting specialist - do you have big clients where you could perhaps get an embedded role in FM or PM opportunities - drifting into mechanical is always a good option - thermal modelling might be a good route into that. Specialist sectors like healthcare, defence etc are also good routes to follow (but also try and keep a bit of generalist engineering about you)

If none of that gets you back in the salary escalator, do look elsewhere - but if you do decide to move on, your employer will come back with a better package - turn him down.

Don't sell out for a few grand, if you are worth it now, why not before you decided to leave - we'll pay it (once) second time around you'll have no credibility - trust me on that one - you'll never move any further in that firm

So - make your plans - if they won't play ball then move on - it's what our industry suffers from most, but it has to be you first then them - loyalty is only important once you get into more senior roles - we expect juniors and intermediate's to move about - it gets them good experience - so if you can grab back one of your former grads who has a few extra years of good experience with another firm, then happy days.

Be careful before you jump of course - grass, green, fence and all that, no one is having a good time for sure - just that some are having a less bad time - those are the ones you need to find - usually the very big players with a global marketplace that's less sensitive to UK conditions.

Good luck with whatever you decide - it's pretty brutal out there but there are a few opportunities emerging in a couple of sectors - your current people might land one - or you go to where the project lands - either way, don't get stuck mid way, you need to do something so make a plan post end of march and go for it.

Regards

OMS

-------------------------
Failure is always an option
 20 February 2013 06:40 PM
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Legh

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Great summary OMS, I seem to be stuck at 2.5 tho


Agreed.

@mickeyb
I would have thought £30/hr is not such a bad salary. I make that around 6K per month, gross

Legh

-------------------------
Why do we need Vernier Calipers when we have container ships?

http://www.leghrichardson.co.uk

"Science has overcome time and space. Well, Harvey has overcome not only time and space - but any objections."
 21 February 2013 10:45 AM
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amandalewin

Posts: 148
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Originally posted by: OMS

Things are tough in consultancy Amanda - fees down anything up to 45% on 2008 levels - and I recall you went to Madchester from the city so regional salaries are always going to be less lucrative.



If you are stuck in a graduate position (and believe me, as an industry we do have a bad habit of letting good people fester there because they are cheap to own) then perhaps start looking at a bit of diversification - can you jump on the back of what your BREEAM people are doing, what about something like the LIF courses and become a bit of a lighting specialist - do you have big clients where you could perhaps get an embedded role in FM or PM opportunities - drifting into mechanical is always a good option - thermal modelling might be a good route into that. Specialist sectors like healthcare, defence etc are also good routes to follow (but also try and keep a bit of generalist engineering about you)



If none of that gets you back in the salary escalator, do look elsewhere - but if you do decide to move on, your employer will come back with a better package - turn him down.



Don't sell out for a few grand, if you are worth it now, why not before you decided to leave - we'll pay it (once) second time around you'll have no credibility - trust me on that one - you'll never move any further in that firm



So - make your plans - if they won't play ball then move on - it's what our industry suffers from most, but it has to be you first then them - loyalty is only important once you get into more senior roles - we expect juniors and intermediate's to move about - it gets them good experience - so if you can grab back one of your former grads who has a few extra years of good experience with another firm, then happy days.



Be careful before you jump of course - grass, green, fence and all that, no one is having a good time for sure - just that some are having a less bad time - those are the ones you need to find - usually the very big players with a global marketplace that's less sensitive to UK conditions.



Good luck with whatever you decide - it's pretty brutal out there but there are a few opportunities emerging in a couple of sectors - your current people might land one - or you go to where the project lands - either way, don't get stuck mid way, you need to do something so make a plan post end of march and go for it.



Regards



OMS


Ah 2008, I got to experience 1 year of the good times before it all went to poo.

My career has just been taking a bit to get started as I've been made redundant twice in the last 5 years. I switched from building services to traffic infrastructure, now I'm opp norf and back in building services!

I do feel like I'm finally going somewhere now but am painfully aware of how behind I am compared to someone who had spent the last 5 years at one company.

-------------------------
Amanda

'At some point we all must chose between what is right and what is awesome'
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