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Topic Title: Obsolete motor starters
Topic Summary: Can anyone suggest a long term solution?
Created On: 11 February 2013 07:57 AM
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 11 February 2013 07:57 AM
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cmatheson

Posts: 211
Joined: 16 January 2003

I have been asked to help to resolve an issue with motor controls for a large winch used to pull boats up a slipway.

The Brook 3-phase motor appears to have two sets of sets of windings, one for slow and one for fast speed.

Two control units (one for fast and one for slow speed) adjacent to the motor are based on off-the-shelf reversing DOL starter enclosures with thermal overload units. In addition a pendant remote control is connected to the starters via a relay cabinet. The starters enclosures each have an isolator with a bolt-on interlock unit.

The (40A) overload unit associated with the high speed starter is now failing but the Crabtree T16 contactors and overload are now completely obsolete and the physical constraints of the enclosure and associated pushbuttons means that in order to change to another make and model of DOL reversing starter would necessitate changing the entire enclosure.

The customer has asked me to propose a solution (if necessary replacing all the hardware) that would give them something that can be better maintainable in the long term.

It appears that many of the mainstream suppliers of the hardware are being taken over by multinationals like Seimens and Tyco and that spares and technical support for them is rapidly disappearing. Im wondering therefore, if I will be able to choose a supplier who is likely provide any kind of support for the next 20 or whether a different setup would be more maintainable.

I would be grateful for any ideas about this - thanks.

-------------------------
Chris Matheson MInstMC
 11 February 2013 10:43 AM
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slittle

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Chris,

Give gibbons drive systems a call. They are fairly local to us and it sounds like the sort of project they would be ideal for.

The other option could be Crompton Controls, they still exist and I believe will do bespoke panels

Stu
 11 February 2013 12:00 PM
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zeeper

Posts: 1409
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what you got is a two speed motor. remember 120xHz / pairs of poles=speed.

Can you not just buy two off starters units and fudge a control circuit interlock.

Maybe of interest

Any other soluton is going to get expensive.
 11 February 2013 02:34 PM
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dlane

Posts: 690
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Bespoke panels probably are one of the easier items to maintain. If the panel is built up with some extra room in it then you can always replace the contactors with newer items without being restricted. As Stu has said there are planty of bespoke panel manufacturers around and 40A isn't a large requirement.

We have also found that door mounted controls and isolators are also easier to replace than items that are modular and installed as one part on the door and the second part on the backplate.

Your solution is going to be dependent upon your budget and the condition of the existing equipment;

a) You could change out for new DOL starters as per above but maintainability may become an issue again unless you buy spares upfront.

b) You may be able to use some of the existing enclosures and add a new enclosure to house new contactors and controls.

c) You could look at installing softstart units and reduce the need for some of the existing controls and over loads.

d) You could look at using the highspeed winding only on a VSD. You would need to ensure that the motor is good for operation on a VSD though and that existing protection systems aren't affected by the harmonics they can introduce.

Kind regards

Donald Lane
 11 February 2013 06:40 PM
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peteTLM

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http://www.cromptoncontrols.co...20Speed%20Dual%20Wound

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 11 February 2013 10:22 PM
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jamieblatant

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Bespoke panel

From me

Boss@rtindustria.co.uk

Pictures details quote you in a week

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 12 February 2013 08:07 AM
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cmatheson

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Many thanks for the suggestions. They are much appreciated and feel more confident that I know how to go about this.

OK Mr. Fisher I will send you a set.

-------------------------
Chris Matheson MInstMC
 12 February 2013 02:26 PM
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jamieblatant

Posts: 513
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Originally posted by: cmatheson

Many thanks for the suggestions. They are much appreciated and feel more confident that I know how to go about this.

OK Mr. Fisher I will send you a set.


No problem now tell me were on the Internet did you find my real name :-)

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 12 February 2013 03:22 PM
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slittle

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Originally posted by: jamieblatant

Originally posted by: cmatheson



Many thanks for the suggestions. They are much appreciated and feel more confident that I know how to go about this.



OK Mr. Fisher I will send you a set.




No problem now tell me were on the Internet did you find my real name :-)



Well Companies house is a good start ;-)

Stu
 12 February 2013 07:31 PM
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jamieblatant

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My names not on there though

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 12 February 2013 08:56 PM
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slittle

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If you go to the companycheck website and look at your company it is :-)

I hadn't looked before but as the question was asked I decided to go looking :-D

You have to log in to see the detail....

Stu
 12 August 2013 08:17 AM
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cmatheson

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Many thanks for suggesting Crompton Controls Stu.

Bernard Powell very patiently answered all my questions and put together a very smart new control panel for this motor which was apparently built to drag sluice gates up Ben Nevis circa 1943. He included two spares of each type of relay used as well as new trafellite labels for the pendant and an excellent installation and commissioning guide.

My customer Corpach Boatbuilding is very pleased with the support they have received and both the panel quality and the price.

Testing is now complete and the first big keel is due to touch down on the slipway next Monday.

-------------------------
Chris Matheson MInstMC
 12 August 2013 11:19 AM
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paulskyrme

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Chris,
I missed this thread first time around, but I would have suggested Crompton also, if I don't have time to design & build my own Bernard does them for me @ Crompton, as you say very patient & knowledgeable, and they are IMHO very accomodating also.
 12 August 2013 08:13 PM
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slittle

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Chris,

Welcome, glad it worked out.

Stu
 21 August 2013 09:38 PM
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sparkyaj

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Hi - Try Fairford Electronics. http://www.fairford.com/
They build superb controllers for things like this. I always call on them as they are local. Plus they build soft starters which reduce running costs too!

Superb bits of kit and fantastic aftercare.
 03 April 2014 03:41 PM
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lukeVFD

Posts: 1
Joined: 03 April 2014

If you're after a bespoke piece why not try Ralspeed. They can build panels, soft starters and other gear to your exact requirements.

They provide excellent knowledge and expert information and are one of the UKs only authorised Vacon Service Centres.
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