IET logo
 
IET
Decrease font size
Increase font size
Topic Title: deterring bats
Topic Summary: with lights
Created On: 01 February 2013 06:34 PM
Status: Post and Reply
Linear : Threading : Single : Branch
<< 1 2 3 Previous Next Last unread
Search Topic Search Topic
Topic Tools Topic Tools
View similar topics View similar topics
View topic in raw text format. Print this topic.
 03 February 2013 12:41 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for OMS.
OMS

Posts: 19834
Joined: 23 March 2004

Yup - but the UV component is actually effective at detering bats. That's why I mentioned that lighting is by no means certain to displace them - it's a balance between disturbance and a free feed.

regards


OMS

-------------------------
Failure is always an option
 03 February 2013 01:08 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for rocknroll.
rocknroll

Posts: 8887
Joined: 03 October 2005

There are natural ways of dispersing rodents and the like in the loft spaces, a friend had a lot of problems with all sorts of rodents and birds including bats, once he introduced a cat-flap into the door of the stairs leading to the loft space his problems have now disappeared.

We all know what troubles pussy's cause.

regards

-------------------------
"Take nothing but a picture,
leave nothing but footprints!"
-------------------------
"Oh! The drama of it all."
-------------------------
"You can throw all the philosophy you like at the problem, but at the end of the day it's just basic electrical theory!"
-------------------------
 03 February 2013 01:14 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for OMS.
OMS

Posts: 19834
Joined: 23 March 2004

For sure Funkmeister - but cats are particularly cruel bloody things, and really do cause havoc amongst wildlife populations. They also have a nasty habit of proudly displaying to you what they've caught (and often not killed cleanly)

Personally, I wouldn't let the cat at them

Regards

OMS

-------------------------
Failure is always an option
 03 February 2013 01:30 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for potential.
potential

Posts: 1285
Joined: 01 February 2007

On reflection I don't think permission has been obtained.

I'd be very wary of installing lights to deter bats.
Why?
Because if anything goes pear-shaped it will be the installer who get the blame.
The law regarding bats is very prescriptive.
There are no ifs and buts.

You don't have to deliberately disturb bats to fall foul of the legislation.
In the legislation deliberate disturbance is, I quote, "someone who, although not intending to injure, kill, etc, performed the relevant action, being sufficiently informed and aware of the consequences their action will probably have.


All species of bats are a European Protected Species (EPS) which are species protected by law throughout the European Union with a maximum punishment of 2 years imprisonment and or a maximum fine of £5,000 for each offence.

That's £5,000 per bat.
.......................................................
added.
Permission has been obtained.......but I'd still be wary.
.....................................................


http://www.bats.org.uk

Edited: 03 February 2013 at 02:58 PM by potential
 03 February 2013 01:43 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for rocknroll.
rocknroll

Posts: 8887
Joined: 03 October 2005

Is that not just a perception that a cat because it has been domesticated is no longer permitted to adopt its natural instincts when in fact in the wild when there were greater numbers than there are now they were an important part of the hierarchal system as they are still.

True there may be some carnage to start with but once the borders of the territory has been established then it settles down, such is the natural order.

regards

-------------------------
"Take nothing but a picture,
leave nothing but footprints!"
-------------------------
"Oh! The drama of it all."
-------------------------
"You can throw all the philosophy you like at the problem, but at the end of the day it's just basic electrical theory!"
-------------------------
 03 February 2013 01:48 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for OMS.
OMS

Posts: 19834
Joined: 23 March 2004

As I said, you can get a license to disturb under the legislation - it's incredibly difficult to achieve however - the planning process over this issue is painful in the extreme. When we come across the problem, we have suitably qualified ecologists on hand to go through the process

There may well be a concession in place - Zs doesn't actually mention what alternative sites and/or remediation in the refurb is planned for the development, so that may well be in place.

Always wisest to check though

Regards

OMS

-------------------------
Failure is always an option
 03 February 2013 02:06 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for rocknroll.
rocknroll

Posts: 8887
Joined: 03 October 2005

Originally posted by: OMS

As I said, you can get a license to disturb under the legislation - it's incredibly difficult to achieve however - the planning process over this issue is painful in the extreme. When we come across the problem, we have suitably qualified ecologists on hand to go through the process

There may well be a concession in place - Zs doesn't actually mention what alternative sites and/or remediation in the refurb is planned for the development, so that may well be in place.

Always wisest to check though

Regards

OMS


I agree and as I pointed out earlier I suspect this has already been taken into account at the planning stage as LA's are fairly strict when there is a bat issue to ensure all the conditions are met, generally this flowchart is referred to when there is this problem of this nature.

http://www.english-heritage.or...emeteries/making-time

regards

-------------------------
"Take nothing but a picture,
leave nothing but footprints!"
-------------------------
"Oh! The drama of it all."
-------------------------
"You can throw all the philosophy you like at the problem, but at the end of the day it's just basic electrical theory!"
-------------------------
 03 February 2013 02:40 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for OMS.
OMS

Posts: 19834
Joined: 23 March 2004

Originally posted by: rocknroll

Is that not just a perception that a cat because it has been domesticated is no longer permitted to adopt its natural instincts when in fact in the wild when there were greater numbers than there are now they were an important part of the hierarchal system as they are still.

True there may be some carnage to start with but once the borders of the territory has been established then it settles down, such is the natural order.

regards


The problem with the natural instincts is that the cat population is significantly higher than could be supported in the wild.

It's one thing having a small feral population surviving in the wild - quite another when Tiddles gets his grub and board found and then has plenty of time to predate the local wildlife population for fun - and in far greater numbers than could exist in a natural ecosystem.

It's why the top predatrors only exist in small numbers - they need a far bigger subordinate food chain below them to stay alive and reproduce.

Why we have more rabbits than foxes essentially

Regards

OMS

-------------------------
Failure is always an option
 03 February 2013 02:43 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



Zs

Posts: 3000
Joined: 20 July 2006

Well, it is an old house with a clay tiled roof. There are no bats at the moment but bats are prevalent in the area and are know to roost in some of the neighbours' attic spaces. There are stables and barns around.

Yes, it is all above board and documented, there is quite a chunky file. There is a particular process on the go and there is a conservation 'bat man' involved as part of his conservation work. There will be three random and unscheduled visits before building work commences. These to check that there are still no bats and that nothing has been done to disturb habitat.

He tells them what the law is and gives them very clear tips without actually saying 'this is a tip'. For example, he says, 'they'll be able to get in that hole over there'.

You can see the daylight holes once you get inside the eaves. I think they need some more insulation up there.

I noticed that the lady of the house is limping quite badly. She has recently had a knee-replacement. They have a little dog. I suggested that they might like to have some basic sofit lighting around the house for when she takes to dog outside at night so that she doesn't fall down. I also suggested a house-warming party and lots of icicle lights to decorate the place

Beyond that it would be very difficult to do anything without some major cabling routes and roof clambering. I am also busy enough to be able to turn down anything iffy so I made very few suggestions.

The foil sounds good, as does a draught, thanks for that Rock.

Zs
 03 February 2013 03:27 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for OMS.
OMS

Posts: 19834
Joined: 23 March 2004

I presumed the lighting would all be temporary - ie sufficient to ensure they don't roost - when the works are complete, then the building would be bat proof and no longer require displacement lighting ?

Lights on long flexes from RCD sockets type thing ?

Permanent external lighting is going to be a planning and part L issue I would have thought.

regards

OMS

-------------------------
Failure is always an option
 03 February 2013 04:32 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



Zs

Posts: 3000
Joined: 20 July 2006

You are quite right OMS, all temporary but I expect some outside lighting on normal switches in the future. I have just offered them a long RCD outdoor lead on loan, to do with as they will, and been offered the job doing the electrics for the building work.

'I expect your builder will have his own electrician'

'My builder will do what I tell him...'

Nice.

Sparkyaj, thank you, that's a warning to me not to get too involved. I gather that bats return to their place of birth to breed, like toads.

Zs
 03 February 2013 04:42 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for OMS.
OMS

Posts: 19834
Joined: 23 March 2004

All good stuff, Zs

Bats will return year after year to the same maternity roosts for sure - that's why thier loss can be so important to the survival of local groups of bats.

And why it's actually so difficult to get success with displacement techniques - they want to get back to where it all began, so to speak, at almost any cost.

sounds like a nice job in a nice place with a good client - crack on

regards

OMS

-------------------------
Failure is always an option
 03 February 2013 05:33 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for dbullard.
dbullard

Posts: 1166
Joined: 02 March 2006

Never really had time to read all posts on this subject so please accept my apollogies if what i'm going write has been covered


95%of my work is in "BAT"infested properties, the current one is a farmhouse built in 1690 ish with the remains of what was once a monastery on the same site previously.

Now the bat has more rights than any builder/property owner/ electrician as I found out whilst being in the loft pulling through some central heating control cables and was ordered out out with the threat of prosecution if the bats already in residence by the area "Batman" as I re-named him.

The customer had to apply for permission from the bat preservation chaps to re slate his roof and make alterations to the internal structure (removing plasterboard and replacing with reed and lime).

All the works involved were put on hold until the bats had finished the breeding season and returned to the local caves and caverns, again this was verified by "Batman" making regular chargeable(£80) visits of 20mins each over 3 weeks.

Good luck Zs I really do take more care when pricing for jobs in old properties and ask if there are bats.

Regards

Daren

-------------------------
..... Dont pee in my pocket and tell me its raining ......


www.quest-electrical-sw.co.uk
 03 February 2013 05:36 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for rocknroll.
rocknroll

Posts: 8887
Joined: 03 October 2005

Darren, I know you wont be out and about on the pond like us nutters but do you have AIS and/or a callsign for future reference.

regards

-------------------------
"Take nothing but a picture,
leave nothing but footprints!"
-------------------------
"Oh! The drama of it all."
-------------------------
"You can throw all the philosophy you like at the problem, but at the end of the day it's just basic electrical theory!"
-------------------------
 03 February 2013 06:44 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for dbullard.
dbullard

Posts: 1166
Joined: 02 March 2006

Just in the process of selling my boat RNR to pay may taxbill, I have another boat unamed at the moment, once named I will let you know, if the sale falls through I will let you know.


Regards


Daren

-------------------------
..... Dont pee in my pocket and tell me its raining ......


www.quest-electrical-sw.co.uk
 03 February 2013 06:50 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for OMS.
OMS

Posts: 19834
Joined: 23 March 2004

in the process of selling my boat RNR to pay my tax bill


Why do I hear "Dignity" playing in the background of my mind when I read that

Regards

OMS

-------------------------
Failure is always an option
 03 February 2013 07:01 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



Zs

Posts: 3000
Joined: 20 July 2006

He wraps his lunch in a sunblest bag....

My Dad's favourite boat is called 'No Worries'. Some kind of vintage put-put and moored down your way. The other one is called Gladys.

I reckon boat names tell a great deal about the original owner and love wandering about harbours reading them. ' The tao of Poo' Emsworth marina...nice.

Zs
 03 February 2013 07:05 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for rocknroll.
rocknroll

Posts: 8887
Joined: 03 October 2005

Originally posted by: dbullard

Just in the process of selling my boat RNR to pay may taxbill, I have another boat unamed at the moment, once named I will let you know, if the sale falls through I will let you know.

Regards

Daren


Okay Darren, let me know.

regards

-------------------------
"Take nothing but a picture,
leave nothing but footprints!"
-------------------------
"Oh! The drama of it all."
-------------------------
"You can throw all the philosophy you like at the problem, but at the end of the day it's just basic electrical theory!"
-------------------------
 03 February 2013 07:06 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for dbullard.
dbullard

Posts: 1166
Joined: 02 March 2006

Well mine was called "Brixham Spirit" and is now named "Fishin Impossible"

Say no more Zs

Regards


Daren

-------------------------
..... Dont pee in my pocket and tell me its raining ......


www.quest-electrical-sw.co.uk
 03 February 2013 07:36 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for sparkingchip.
sparkingchip

Posts: 6278
Joined: 18 January 2003

Get this wrong lighting and you will attract all the local nocturnal flying insect population creating a fly through fast food take away for all the bats to take advantage of.

Andy
IET » Wiring and the regulations » deterring bats

<< 1 2 3 Previous Next Last unread
Topic Tools Topic Tools
Statistics

See Also:



FuseTalk Standard Edition v3.2 - © 1999-2014 FuseTalk Inc. All rights reserved.