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Topic Title: landlords pretend cert
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Created On: 30 January 2013 06:39 PM
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 30 January 2013 06:39 PM
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jamesrussell

Posts: 81
Joined: 11 January 2008

Yes we all know there is no such thing in our game but I have poken t several landlords who want a type off electrical cert but as usual dont want to pay full price.
Well I know its probably been talked about on several occasions but to get a little revenue I was thinking of using part of the standard EICR form ie first and second page with the visual inspection and then explaining the limitations to this report.
If mentioned that this was a limited report and not a full certificate would what do you think out there
 30 January 2013 06:56 PM
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rocknroll

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Joined: 03 October 2005

i think you will find that Daveparry has got this one sewn up and can offer you some advice.

regards

-------------------------
"Take nothing but a picture,
leave nothing but footprints!"
-------------------------
"Oh! The drama of it all."
-------------------------
"You can throw all the philosophy you like at the problem, but at the end of the day it's just basic electrical theory!"
-------------------------
 30 January 2013 06:58 PM
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OMS

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Well - there is already a format for a limited visual inspection.

At the end of the day,the landlord is selling on his risk - personally I wouldn't buy it too cheaply - particularly as you have no real means of selling it on or diluting it or managing it.

What's wrong with an EICR with the limitations agreed upfront - that could include sampling if required - if it then goes Pete Tong then your paperwork is OK for scrutiny and the legal beagles are just left to argue out what's reasonable ?

It's an answer I often use, but probably relevant here - When asked by a client if we can reduce the cost, I respond with "Sure - what would you like me to leave out ?"

Regards

OMS

-------------------------
Failure is always an option
 30 January 2013 07:01 PM
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Richard64

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I do remember the NIC having a visual condition report. This was pre 17th edition so I don't know if it will be still applicable.
I also wouldn't know how it would cover a landlord.
It would depend on his terms and conditions, if he's renting via an agent, or insurance obligations.
Google it. There were some model forms online.
 30 January 2013 07:05 PM
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daveparry1

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Yes they are still available from niceic and I use them for one of my clients that rents properties out through our local council, they are quite happy with them.
 30 January 2013 07:11 PM
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rocknroll

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On the whole rented properties suffer far less abuse than those in the non-rented sector where there is danger of under the radar DIY work etc, most landlords will by now be in possession of a PIR/EICR and it is not unreasonable to expect an annual VCR in the interim period between the ten year period for a domestic property.

regards

-------------------------
"Take nothing but a picture,
leave nothing but footprints!"
-------------------------
"Oh! The drama of it all."
-------------------------
"You can throw all the philosophy you like at the problem, but at the end of the day it's just basic electrical theory!"
-------------------------
 30 January 2013 07:16 PM
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Richard64

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I thought it was five years or change of tenancy, for rented properties.
Although, as you say, there is more likely to be damage rather than deterioration to the installation.
A VCR seems like the answer.
 30 January 2013 07:23 PM
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OMS

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On the whole rented properties suffer far less abuse than those in the non-rented sector where there is danger of under the radar DIY work etc,


You are kidding me ?

The last rented property I was in was spot on - but only because the previous tenant had an organic farm in there and succeeded in flooding the place totaly with his DIY hydroponics along with some DIY wiring to the lamps.

I've seen plenty of rentals and holiday lets which are highly questionable at many levels

What is it they say down your neck of the woods - "Twill be alright for the Grockles" -

Regards

OMS

-------------------------
Failure is always an option
 31 January 2013 01:56 AM
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spinlondon

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I had a landlord that required a report in order for them to rent their prpoperty to the Council.
They wouldn't accept my EICR, because I was not registered with a Part P scheme.
However they were quite happy to accept a VCR from someone who is registered.
 31 January 2013 09:33 AM
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daveparry1

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That's probably why my local council accept the visuals I do for one of my clients that rents out through the council then,

Dave.
 31 January 2013 05:11 PM
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jamesrussell

Posts: 81
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Hi Dave
not a member of your golfing club (ha ha)
so how would I get on
is it possible to see one these examples your on about so I could try and make own or would you try and use the IET paperwork but only certain pages??
regards
James
 31 January 2013 05:22 PM
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rocknroll

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Originally posted by: jamesrussell

Hi Dave

not a member of your golfing club (ha ha)

so how would I get on

is it possible to see one these examples your on about so I could try and make own or would you try and use the IET paperwork but only certain pages??

regards

James


PM your email for a fillable word version.

regards

-------------------------
"Take nothing but a picture,
leave nothing but footprints!"
-------------------------
"Oh! The drama of it all."
-------------------------
"You can throw all the philosophy you like at the problem, but at the end of the day it's just basic electrical theory!"
-------------------------
 31 January 2013 05:29 PM
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John Peckham

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The VCR is not a substitute for an EICR. It is something that is done between EICRs e.g annually or on the change of tenancy.

Letting agents generally will use corrupt, incompetent or unqualified people to do electrical inspection and testing as they only want a bit of paper, any bit of paper, that says "satisfactory". The last thing they want is someone to do a proper I&T as it is most likely the result will be an "unsatisfactory" report. Much better they use a numpty who will give them what they want rather than anything to do with public safety. Letting agents and estate agents have 3 priorities which are "Their commission. their commission and their commission".

Of course if anything goes wrong they can say , " not me gove, it was the electrician we trusted we are disgusted at what he has done to us".

-------------------------
John Peckham

http://www.astutetechnicalservices.co.uk/
 31 January 2013 07:06 PM
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jamesrussell

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hi rocknroll
dont know how to pm tried looking at myiet but couldnt find where to do it can you explain to this thickie
 31 January 2013 07:12 PM
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maltrefor

Posts: 110
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Originally posted by: rocknroll

On the whole rented properties suffer far less abuse than those in the non-rented sector where there is danger of under the radar DIY work etc, most landlords will by now be in possession of a PIR/EICR and it is not unreasonable to expect an annual VCR in the interim period between the ten year period for a domestic property.




Originally posted by: John Peckham

The VCR is not a substitute for an EICR. It is something that is done between EICRs e.g annually or on the change of tenancy.


Correct me if i am wrong but isn't an EICR recommended on rented property every 5 years or on change of tenancy?
 31 January 2013 07:14 PM
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rocknroll

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Originally posted by: jamesrussell

hi rocknroll

dont know how to pm tried looking at myiet but couldnt find where to do it can you explain to this thickie


Go to 'profile' click on 'personal options' and where it says 'Receive Private Messages:' click the 'on' button.

Click on the third icon on top of my post to send your message to me.

regards

-------------------------
"Take nothing but a picture,
leave nothing but footprints!"
-------------------------
"Oh! The drama of it all."
-------------------------
"You can throw all the philosophy you like at the problem, but at the end of the day it's just basic electrical theory!"
-------------------------

Edited: 31 January 2013 at 07:32 PM by rocknroll
 01 February 2013 11:27 AM
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rocknroll

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Correct me if i am wrong but isn't an EICR recommended on rented property every 5 years or on change of tenancy?


This is subjective as there are no hard and fast laws to compliment this, it comes down to the person doing the risk assessment to use their judgement, the majority of rented properties are domestic houses and ten years is a more than adequate period inbetween inspections, although some organisations say five years, the term 'at change of tenancy' in my opinion relates to a period near the end or after the recommended test period not every month.

The VCR is an excellent risk tool for the interim period as it picks up the dangers that arise from everyday living such as damaged accessories, exposed live parts and earthing problems, there are very few problems with fixed wiring, the majority of electricians who have grasped this business opportunity to team up with agents/landlords on the whole do an excellent job in this respect.

I understand this does not suit the high income demands of the new breed 'gold star inspector and testers' who will do their best to rubbish it because they would prefer a four day autopsy followed by a cryptic twenty page report, but I suspect many electricians have benefited from this VCR in terms of regular income.

regards

-------------------------
"Take nothing but a picture,
leave nothing but footprints!"
-------------------------
"Oh! The drama of it all."
-------------------------
"You can throw all the philosophy you like at the problem, but at the end of the day it's just basic electrical theory!"
-------------------------

Edited: 01 February 2013 at 11:53 AM by rocknroll
 01 February 2013 04:33 PM
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daveparry1

Posts: 5888
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John,

I suppose that puts me in the "numpty" category then as i've admitted to doing VCR's. But it seems it's not only letting agents that accept VCR's but some LA's as well! From some of the questions I see here at times it seems there are a few "numpty's" trying to do full EICR's too!

Dave.
 01 February 2013 04:48 PM
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sparkingchip

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"Correct me if i am wrong but isn't an EICR recommended on rented property every 5 years or on change of tenancy?"

Potentially that's twice a year or even more frequently, totally over the top for a full EICR.

Andy
 01 February 2013 06:31 PM
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maltrefor

Posts: 110
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Originally posted by: sparkingchip

"Correct me if i am wrong but isn't an EICR recommended on rented property every 5 years or on change of tenancy?"



Potentially that's twice a year or even more frequently, totally over the top for a full EICR.



Andy


The many LA's and Housing Associations that we do work for do not seem to agree with you as they all insist on full ECIR's even if the previous tenant has only been there for a matter of weeks. It is amazing what damage some tenants can do to an electrical installation in a short time which cannot be visually observed on the surface, usually by securing items to walls and replacing light fittings, leading to non continuity of RFC's and no earth continuity to lighting cct's witn class I fittings!
IET » Wiring and the regulations » landlords pretend cert

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