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Topic Title: Distance between cutout and meter
Topic Summary: Switch fuse - Who's responsibillty?
Created On: 21 January 2013 07:19 PM
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 21 January 2013 07:19 PM
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SherlockOhms

Posts: 325
Joined: 05 April 2011

Chaps,

I looked at a job today with the meter placed a good 10M (perhaps more if measuring installed length) from the cut out with no switched fuse.

Is this ok?

Who's responsibility is this? DNO or customer?

TN-S supply.

Many thanks.

S.
 21 January 2013 07:34 PM
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Avatar for OMS.
OMS

Posts: 19747
Joined: 23 March 2004

Client responsibility usually - although if the DNO are providing an isolator keep in mind that has no protection so not much use to you.

Most DNO's have a limit of circa 3m for unprotected tails - beyond that you need isolation and circuit protection

Regards

OMS

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Failure is always an option
 21 January 2013 07:39 PM
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aligarjon

Posts: 2869
Joined: 09 September 2005

I would have thought it was their responsibility (dno) if its before the meter if its needed at all. Could cause some fun if a smart meter is fitted with a switch before it.

Gary

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Specialised Subject. The Bleedin Obvious. John Cleese
 21 January 2013 07:46 PM
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Avatar for OMS.
OMS

Posts: 19747
Joined: 23 March 2004

Whoops -

That'll teach me to read it slowly won't it - yes, I'd agree with Gary - it has to be a DNO responsibility, but they probably won't do anything about it (akin to building rising mains etc)

What cable type is it - single insulated and sheathed for example would be a hell of an abstraction risk

Regards

OMS

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Failure is always an option
 21 January 2013 07:47 PM
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SherlockOhms

Posts: 325
Joined: 05 April 2011

....so if changing the board is it down to me to install a sw fuse at the cutout?

S.
 21 January 2013 07:49 PM
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SherlockOhms

Posts: 325
Joined: 05 April 2011

.....ah I note the correction.

Course of action? Call the DNO?

S.
 21 January 2013 08:27 PM
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AJJewsbury

Posts: 11553
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Course of action? Call the DNO?

If you want. I suspect they've just co-ordinated their work with their network so that Zs at the meter (Ze to us) is within spec. If you look around the country you'll see lots of long sheathed singles on the supply side - it use to be common to see them clipped across the front of a terrace, tapped off for each house - so not just before the meter, but before the cut-out as well.

It might be worth mentioning to them if you're worried about the route they take (e.g. if they're concealed in a wall or otherwise risk damage or say across a loft where they could be covered and be a fire risk).

- Andy.
 23 January 2013 10:27 AM
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SherlockOhms

Posts: 325
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I spoke with SSE PD (EON) and they're going to pop alaong and move the cutout.

S.
 23 January 2013 10:36 AM
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AncientMariner

Posts: 525
Joined: 14 December 2004

Interesting!

Surely if they move the cutout closer to the meter, that implies that they will be extending the supply cable by 10 metres? In which case that 10 metres of cable will now be protected by the sub-station fuse which I guess will be at a higher rating than the one in the existing cutout.

My worry here is based on the cable being internal to the property, or are the DNO looking at a different point of entry into the property?

Cheers!

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Clive S Carver GCGI IEng MIET
 23 January 2013 10:46 AM
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SherlockOhms

Posts: 325
Joined: 05 April 2011

Indeed.

Cable will be internal to property.

I'm only quoting switchboard operator relaying a conversation she had with an adult. She said "they would come and move the cutout".

I'll wait and see what happens.

S.
 23 January 2013 12:10 PM
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OMS

Posts: 19747
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I suspect they'll move the meter back to the cut out location leaving you (the consumer) with responsibility for those tails if you re use them to get a supply from the meter to the con unit.

That would be the time to drop in perhaps an SWA with a switch fuse the meter end (if you want to avoid RCD protection on the sub main) - or just about any cable if you add a single RCD at the meter end (note opinions on minimising risk and inconvenience)

Regards

OMS

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Failure is always an option
 23 January 2013 03:16 PM
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SherlockOhms

Posts: 325
Joined: 05 April 2011

That's what I suspect too.

I did check with the identical adjacent house and the meter was next to the cut out.

Any advice/help on the optimum setup much appreciated.

S.
 23 January 2013 10:23 PM
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peteTLM

Posts: 3187
Joined: 31 March 2005

Have your switchfuse onsite ready for them to make the meter tails off into when they shift it. (this where having an understanding wholesalers come in handy in case they do something completly different).
Its TNS so use a metalclad switch fuse and gland the swa straight into it. use a brass bush as an entry for the tails but be aware of IP ratings. 100A supply- 100A s fuse, 25mm swa. if its 60A supply, 60A S Fuse, 16mm swa.
Gland the swa into a 6x6 galv box butted up to and bushed into the consumer unit.
Charge the customer accordingly as this will add bucks to the job.

Regards

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Lack of planning on your part doesn't make it an emergency on mine....

Every man has to know his limitations- Dirty Harry
 24 January 2013 08:09 AM
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SherlockOhms

Posts: 325
Joined: 05 April 2011

Pete,

This seems like a lot of work/expense.
What's wrong with OMS's suggestion of an RCD at the meter (new position) and re-use the existing tails.

Alternatively, just relocate the CU to the new meter position?
There is only cooker/two rings/two light ccts and smokes. Pop in a marshallaing box in place of the CU and run in new cabling to the repositioned CU.
This is surely a cheaper/easier option?

S.
 24 January 2013 06:11 PM
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alancapon

Posts: 5789
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Originally posted by: SherlockOhms
. . . RCD at the meter (new position) and re-use the existing tails. . .

You must have overcurrent protection at the meter position. If the existing cable is suitable, then you must choose the appropriate size for its design.

Regards,

Alan.
 25 January 2013 09:44 AM
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SherlockOhms

Posts: 325
Joined: 05 April 2011

Alan,

I appreciate that O/C protection is required.

What I'm asking is would it not be easier to re-use the existing tails with a sw/fuse followed by an RCD at the meter end as opposed to installing an SWA and associated anciliaries as suggested by Pete?

S.
 25 January 2013 03:26 PM
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alancapon

Posts: 5789
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If the existing cable is suitable, then common sense would suggest you use it, fitting appropriate oc protection at the origin.

Regards,

Alan.
 07 February 2013 07:33 AM
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SherlockOhms

Posts: 325
Joined: 05 April 2011

Just an update on this.

EON tricked SE into taking a look by reporting a faulty meter (engineers words, not mine). All is ok and safe apparantly but follow up work has been requested, what ever that means?

So much for over long tails then?

Should there not be some sort of paperwork from the DNO to support this?

S.
 07 February 2013 09:25 AM
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londonlec

Posts: 61
Joined: 29 November 2010

I'd just fit the new board and be done with it.

Its before the meter so not your problem
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