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Topic Title: which do you : scheme or building control for part p work
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Created On: 30 December 2012 09:38 PM
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 30 December 2012 09:38 PM
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thesaint

Posts: 43
Joined: 02 June 2008

hi just wondering as at moment i use B/C for signing off work which don't cost too much for the amount i need to part p so does many others use B/C or am i the minority and should go down the routes of registering with a scheme!!
 30 December 2012 11:22 PM
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daveparry1

Posts: 6210
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From what i've read on here about BC charges I would say if you're doing more than two part P jobs a year you're better off being registered with a scheme. My niceic is around £450 a year and I do around 25 notifiable jobs a year, and apart from the economics of it there's the convenience of self-certifying your work and not having to work around visits from a Building Inspector,

Dave.
 31 December 2012 12:07 AM
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whjohnson

Posts: 723
Joined: 24 January 2009

which do you : scheme or building control for part p work ?


To be honest, neither, but neither do many others in the business if the drop-out figures for registration and notification are true.

My advice? Save your money - don't bother to notify, nor register.

Out of a national figure of some 123,000 contractors, only something like a fifth of that figure actually bother to do either.

Happy New Year.

-------------------------
Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
 31 December 2012 12:39 AM
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unshockable

Posts: 848
Joined: 18 May 2007

Hi thesaint,

You are right to wonder. The big difference is on small jobs; on larger ones the extra cost can be absorbed.

What I have found, is that I feel the need to turn down small jobs because I can't self certify. I also miss out on the perfectly understandable board changes and ancillary notifiable works.

On the other hand, being in this position has taught me to be imaginative and avoid the specious board changes seen by some as a solution. Repairs and fault finding are often not covered by Part P.

Having said all that, I may bite my tongue and just do it. Being judged only once a year seems a blast now; on my last inspection the guy actually looked at my (unfitted) skeleton board and said "do they still make them?". I was pulled up on bonding gas and water with an unbroken 10mm; they should have been separate? The list could go on.

Simon
 31 December 2012 12:55 AM
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whjohnson

Posts: 723
Joined: 24 January 2009

I was pulled up on bonding gas and water with an unbroken 10mm; they should have been separate? The list could go on.


And therein lies the conflict of interest when it comes to 'assessment/re-assessment' time.

Just like solicitors, who love to tell the client what he/she actually wants to hear, rather then what the law actually says, the scam operators impose their policies rather than what the wiring regulations actually require in such instances.

Of course, the 'Re-assessment' fee for such misdemeanour's has nothing at all to do with it........

After all, they ARE only 'charities'........

-------------------------
Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
 31 December 2012 06:42 AM
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normcall

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Then the other un-asked question was how many 'registered installers' actually notify?

Then the other question has to be, why was I on the roll of approved contractors whereas now you need only be registered. Says volumes about the reasoning behind the cunning plan, doesn't it?

-------------------------
Norman
 31 December 2012 07:57 AM
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thesaint

Posts: 43
Joined: 02 June 2008

whjohnson can i ask how do you part p certify domestic work - a,you dont do this work or b,certify but not a part p cert just your own its just with B/C as i am approved with them the charge is not so high i send in all cert results and they send the customer the part p cert..
 31 December 2012 08:53 AM
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ebee

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Like Daveparry1 I was doing about 25 notifiable jobs per year (some of which were disabled showers on council grants) therefore to stay legal being in a scheme was my most economical and least hassle path to take. I already had the relevant qualifications and most of the paperwork in place so this part of the cost was minimal until 2011 when I retook the full regs course and exam.

Once I costed out the total extra it was costing me per year was the question, shall I put it on my hourly rate to all customers, shall I put it on hourly rate just to all customers where Part p applies (or a fixed sum) or shall I put it on hourly rate/fixed sum just to customers with notifiable works.

Eventually I settled into a mixture of a small increase in hourly rate to all customers and a small fee to all notifiable jobs to recoup the costs.

During the last 8 years , if the schemes and Government had promoted Part P properly then the extra work generated might have reduced or actually zero`d my additional costs

-------------------------
Regards,
Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
 31 December 2012 10:04 AM
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daveparry1

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To be honest, neither
-------------
In other words WH you choose to work illegally by not complying with part P regulations (which i'm sure you know is the law), do you bother to tax and insure your car/van or is that something else that you consider shouldn't apply to you?
Happy new year!

Dave.
 31 December 2012 10:43 AM
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normcall

Posts: 8132
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Ahh, just remember it's the customers responsibility to notify.
I provide customers with the information, the forms and just ask them to confirm they have notified.
To be honest, I suspect most do, but some might not. By the same token, a registered contractor need not notify - one could argue my method is at least open and transparent.

-------------------------
Norman
 31 December 2012 11:37 AM
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jsa986

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Originally posted by: daveparry1

To be honest, neither

-------------

In other words WH you choose to work illegally by not complying with part P regulations (which i'm sure you know is the law), do you bother to tax and insure your car/van or is that something else that you consider shouldn't apply to you?

Happy new year!



Dave.



Dave

Its not WHJonsons responsibility to notify, so what law is he breaking? Further to that, maybe he interprets the Part P "law" differently to you.

In addition with your knowledge of law you should understand motoring offences are summary and absolute offences, Part P is neither of those so why the comparison?

-------------------------
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 31 December 2012 11:49 AM
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John Peckham

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The new, it is not a draft, Approved Document P now has the provision for a 3rd way of compliance by using a registered verifier to I&T your work and to notify it is this not a very useful facility for the unregistered contractor? Additionly the provision for unregistered contractors to be approved by the LA to I&T their own work has been been clarified in the new Part P does this not provide a 4th way for compliance?

-------------------------
John Peckham

http://www.astutetechnicalservices.co.uk/
 31 December 2012 12:31 PM
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daveparry1

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I know it's really the client's responsibility to notify but how many private people would understand that or know how to go about it or even bother? I just think that as the person doing the job it's in my own interest to make sure things are done properly, especially as it's such an easy process for those of us that take the trouble to be registered. It seems to me that many people posting on here are often banging on about us needing more control over people doing electrical installation work but some won't even follow the rules already in place!

Dave.
 31 December 2012 12:44 PM
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spinlondon

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Neither.
I always let the customer sort that stuff out, or not as is usually the case.
 31 December 2012 12:48 PM
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rocknroll

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Oh dear, just to point out there is no offence with regards to just parts A-P, these are just approved guidance documents on how to comply with the building regulations, they do contain some mandatory language so they can be used in enforcement, planning disputes etc;

The person doing the work has a responsibility to comply with Regulation 7 of the Building Regulations. i.e. good workmanship and appropriate materials.

The person ordering the work has a responsibility to comply with Regulation 14 onwards of the Building Regulations, i.e. depositing plans under the Town and Country Planning Act and/or notification under the various parts A-D.

Failure to obtain planning consent for building work such as an extension can result in enforcement action, such as tearing down the offending building and levying a charge for this against the property.

Failure to register notifiable work can result in a regularisation fee and inspection fee before a building regulations compliance certificate can be issued, failure to do this can result in no compliance certificate and information being passed to the land registry which could affect the future sale of the property.

Fairly technical stuff really, if WHJ is completing his work in a workmanlike manner, using appropriate materials and certifying his work then he is not breaking any law, he is one of many thousands of contractors whose clients work outside the regulatory system and LA's are not that daft, it does not cause any problems and most are left to do a good job, on a local basis it is not difficult to identify the odd dodgy ones and lean on them a bit.

The issue of sub-standard work is totally seperate from the Building Regulations, that comes under Consumer and Common law.

Belonging to a scheme and then assuming you are entitled to all the work is a bit naïve, it is purely a commercial decision, to be able to offer your client a cheaper alternative than having to pay building control fees should give you an edge over someone who is not registered is the key marketing strategy here.

regards

-------------------------
"Take nothing but a picture,
leave nothing but footprints!"
-------------------------
"Oh! The drama of it all."
-------------------------
"You can throw all the philosophy you like at the problem, but at the end of the day it's just basic electrical theory!"
-------------------------

Edited: 31 December 2012 at 01:07 PM by rocknroll
 31 December 2012 03:52 PM
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AJJewsbury

Posts: 11462
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I gather that the new version of part P (starting next year sometime) has a lot less notifiable than the old one, so the financial balance between registering and occasionally using BC might be shifting significantly to the latter.
- Andy.
 31 December 2012 04:02 PM
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thesaint

Posts: 43
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hi rocknroll that's all good for new installs, extensions etc but what if its work in a special location or new c/u upgrade that requires notifying im not part p but i will notify LA and pay a charge cause this work has to be notifed ,certified by me and approved by LA is that not correct!!
 31 December 2012 04:18 PM
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rocknroll

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Originally posted by: thesaint

hi rocknroll that's all good for new installs, extensions etc but what if its work in a special location or new c/u upgrade that requires notifying im not part p but i will notify LA and pay a charge cause this work has to be notifed ,certified by me and approved by LA is that not correct!!


Thats entirely up to you to go this route but your customer has the responsibility to notify and pay the fees if they want a BRCC, your responsibility is to do the work properly and safely and issue a certificate for the work done, if your customer does not notify one could argue 'complicity', you are both involved in a questionable act but that is very unlikely as it is easier to ask for a regularisation fee and if none is forthcoming send the details to the land registry.

regards

-------------------------
"Take nothing but a picture,
leave nothing but footprints!"
-------------------------
"Oh! The drama of it all."
-------------------------
"You can throw all the philosophy you like at the problem, but at the end of the day it's just basic electrical theory!"
-------------------------
 31 December 2012 04:44 PM
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normcall

Posts: 8132
Joined: 15 January 2005

R&R - " LA's are not that daft, it does not cause any problems and most are left to do a good job, on a local basis it is not difficult to identify the odd dodgy ones and lean on them a bit. "

I believe my LABC have that attitude and I often get the feeling they go 'through the motions' when they gather a few of my jobs together and we look at them.

I always think they have a similar system to the old NICEIC system where they inspect a representative sample of your work. I know my inspector didn't like me allowing him to select jobs to inspect, he much preferred contractors to tell him which ones to look at - at that was in the good 'ol days, I dread to think what it's like now. Just one the fatal flaws in the 'registration' schemes.

-------------------------
Norman
 31 December 2012 08:07 PM
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whjohnson

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I know it's really the client's responsibility to notify but how many private people would understand that or know how to go about it or even bother?


Ignorance of the law is not a valid defence. That said, the client only has to take out an insurance policy when they come to sell the house to cover any discrepancies in the paperwork, and hey - whenever did the lack of a BC compliance cert ever influence the sale or otherwise of a property?

Heart usually rules head when house buying, and its usually the woman's. Husband usually just stands there nodding and murmuring "Yes dear"!

It seems to me that many people posting on here are often banging on about us needing more control over people doing electrical installation work but some won't even follow the rules already in place!


I can say that I am completely against 'more control' as you put it. Always have been, as a brief scan through my post history here will testify.

Oh, and my 2391 and 30 years in the game allow me to I&T correctly too.

The only disqualifier is my refusal to pay an annual fee to some parasitic organism to oversee my 'work' once a year.

-------------------------
Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
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