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Topic Title: ON LINE REGISTERS
Topic Summary: JUST RECEIVED FROM THE NICEIC
Created On: 19 December 2012 03:45 PM
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 19 December 2012 03:45 PM
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John Peckham

Posts: 7380
Joined: 23 April 2005

"The ECA and ESC have been working for nearly two years to form a meaningful partnership for the good of the electrical contracting industry. From April 2013 joint governance over NICEIC and ELECSA will ensure standards are applied consistently across the industry and that those registered with the schemes are extensively promoted.

To that end we have already launched the Electrical Safety Register: www.electricalsafetyregister.com

We are urging our registered contractors not to provide their details to another similarly named web site or organisation purporting to act under the guise of safety. We believe it is merely a move to capture contact details for marketing purposes and a way to push forward their own commercial interests.

The other site does not have industry-wide support from the ESC or ECA and has unfortunately created confusion in the industry.

Registration on the Electrical Safety Register costs nothing to NICEIC, ELECSA and ECA members and is the first of many benefits the collaboration between The Electrical Contractors Association (ECA) and the Electrical Safety Council (ESC) will bring to both contractors, specifiers and consumers.

The register will be promoted extensively to consumers and specifiers of electrical work so that it becomes the number one searchable database for registered electricians. We have sent out more than 60,000 letters to MPs, local authorities, housing associations and other such leading organisations informing them about the register.

The ESC and ECA is proud of its rich heritage within the electrical industry. The NICEIC and ELECSA brands are names associated with trust, rigorous assessment of competence and quality of standards. With more than 50 years of experience the Register will become the definitive, trusted resource for anyone looking to employ a competent electrical contractor, whether in the domestic or commercial or industrial environment.

Any views?

-------------------------
John Peckham

http://www.astutetechnicalservices.co.uk/
 19 December 2012 03:51 PM
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AJJewsbury

Posts: 11299
Joined: 13 August 2003

To me it sounds like sour grapes from an organisation that's been thoroughly out-flanked!

I dare say their marketing budget will mean that the general public's perception will be different though.

- Andy.
 19 December 2012 03:59 PM
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Avatar for OMS.
OMS

Posts: 19471
Joined: 23 March 2004

The ESC and ECA is proud of its rich heritage within the electrical industry. The NICEIC and ELECSA brands are names associated with trust, rigorous assessment of competence and quality of standards.


Really ?

OMS

-------------------------
Failure is always an option
 19 December 2012 04:38 PM
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normcall

Posts: 8111
Joined: 15 January 2005

" names associated with........."

Good how they manage to combine ESC, ECS, NICEIC and ELECSA in one sentence. Not surprising the public are confuzzled. I am, but that really surprising being seriously bewildered.

Bring back the Part P qualification - you know it makes sense!

-------------------------
Norman
 19 December 2012 05:02 PM
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Zoro

Posts: 130
Joined: 31 July 2011

After careful evaluation and concern for Consumer protection, Trustmark support - - ElectricSafe.


"TrustMark - a not-for-profit organisation, licensed by Government and supported by consumer protection groups - have expressed their support for the ElectricSafe Register, the new brand and consumer facing search facility recently launched by NAPIT.

In response to news of the Registers Launch, TrustMark Chairman, Liz Male said: "We welcome all initiatives that give publicity to TrustMark registered firms and signpost consumers to the good firms. The ElectricSafe register is another development in the industry that will provide guidance and support to homeowners wanting to hire professional, registered electricians.

"Together we must drive for higher standards, greater consumer empowerment and recognition of reputable firms."

With industry support and promotion to consumers growing as more and more competent electricians sign up to the Register, ElectricSafe now looks well placed to significantly improve consumer awareness of competent electricians."
 19 December 2012 05:45 PM
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ebee

Posts: 5667
Joined: 02 December 2004

I have received that email from the NIC.
Looks like they are running scared.
Too late I`ve registered with the NAPIT one.
They are cheeky gits, it`s not long since one of the ECA blokes at ELEX Harrogate was slamming the NIC (he was calling them B*st**ds) for trying to poach ECA & Elecsa members, now they are in bed together. Ha Ha Ha

-------------------------
Regards,
Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
 19 December 2012 06:01 PM
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rocknroll

Posts: 8827
Joined: 03 October 2005

Originally posted by: ebee

I have received that email from the NIC.

Looks like they are running scared.

Too late I`ve registered with the NAPIT one.

They are cheeky gits, it`s not long since one of the ECA blokes at ELEX Harrogate was slamming the NIC (he was calling them B*st**ds) for trying to poach ECA & Elecsa members, now they are in bed together. Ha Ha Ha


"A man falling off a cliff to certain death will stretch out a hand even to his worst enemy."

regards

-------------------------
"Take nothing but a picture,
leave nothing but footprints!"
-------------------------
"Oh! The drama of it all."
-------------------------
"You can throw all the philosophy you like at the problem, but at the end of the day it's just basic electrical theory!"
-------------------------
 19 December 2012 06:07 PM
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Avatar for OMS.
OMS

Posts: 19471
Joined: 23 March 2004

"A man falling off a cliff to certain death will stretch out a hand even to his worst enemy."


now they are in bed together. Ha Ha Ha


and are unlikely to chuck each other out for having cold feet on a wet and rainy saturday night

OMS

-------------------------
Failure is always an option
 19 December 2012 06:18 PM
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impvan

Posts: 750
Joined: 07 September 2005

...working for nearly two years to form a meaningful partnership for the good of the electrical contracting industry


..and we've been doing it in secret, because WE know what's best for you!
 19 December 2012 07:00 PM
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peteTLM

Posts: 3122
Joined: 31 March 2005

Originally posted by: Zoro

"TrustMark - a not-for-profit organisation, licensed by Government and supported by consumer protection groups - have expressed their support for the ElectricSafe Register, the new brand and consumer facing search facility recently launched by NAPIT.

In response to news of the Registers Launch, TrustMark Chairman, Liz Male said: "We welcome all initiatives that give publicity to TrustMark registered firms and signpost consumers to the good firms. The ElectricSafe register is another development in the industry that will provide guidance and support to homeowners wanting to hire professional, registered electricians.


"


Maybe Liz Male would like to hear my views on trustmark.

I had been with trustmark for several years, but dropped it due to their stupid idiotic get out clauses that now have to be next to their logos.

Under the trustmark logo, we are now expected to put (and i paraphrase as i threw the pack straight in the bin) ''registered via niceic (no change there then) for electrical works carried out on domestic properties only''.

I dont really want to put that load after the logo. It seems like your backpeddaling and have something to hide from the start.

If you can be 'trusted' then does it matter where your working? Its not like its an insurance policy or similar. Maybe we could put 'does not include double glazed windows'' as we dont do them either?

-------------------------
----------------------------------------
Lack of planning on your part doesn't make it an emergency on mine....

Every man has to know his limitations- Dirty Harry
 19 December 2012 07:13 PM
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jcm256

Posts: 1841
Joined: 01 April 2006

Gas Safe Register is the official gas registration body for the United Kingdom, Isle of Man and Guernsey, appointed by the relevant Health and Safety Authority for each area. (HSWI for Isle of Man..
By law all gas engineers must be on the Gas Safe Register. .

HSE awarded a 10 year contract to the Capita Group Plc to provide a new registration scheme for gas engineers - Gas Safe Register.
It may have thought that a private scheme to register Electricians on an

Electrical Safe register would have been attractive to the Government and being a not for profit at no cost to the Taxpayer.
However, is the Government Biting? Does not look like it now at the present time. The scheme operators are not helping themselves by starting a turf war. And the government themselves may be wary of creating another shambolic Wreck like Part P is, since its introduction five day "Part P" courses have been offered to all and sundry to deem themselves "competent" to carry out electrical work.

Edited: 19 December 2012 at 07:40 PM by jcm256
 19 December 2012 07:30 PM
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Avatar for Legh.
Legh

Posts: 3472
Joined: 17 December 2004

We are urging our registered contractors not to provide their details to another similarly named web site or organisation purporting to act under the guise of safety.
We believe it is merely a move to capture contact details for marketing purposes and a way to push forward their own commercial interests.

The other site does not have industry-wide support from the ESC or ECA and has unfortunately created confusion in the industry.


Lol, All so predictable......

Not much else to be said really....

Legh

-------------------------
Why do we need Vernier Calipers when we have container ships?

http://www.leghrichardson.co.uk

"Science has overcome time and space. Well, Harvey has overcome not only time and space - but any objections."
 19 December 2012 08:33 PM
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rocknroll

Posts: 8827
Joined: 03 October 2005

Originally posted by: jcm256

Gas Safe Register is the official gas registration body for the United Kingdom, Isle of Man and Guernsey, appointed by the relevant Health and Safety Authority for each area. (HSWI for Isle of Man..

By law all gas engineers must be on the Gas Safe Register. .

HSE awarded a 10 year contract to the Capita Group Plc to provide a new registration scheme for gas engineers - Gas Safe Register.

It may have thought that a private scheme to register Electricians on an

Electrical Safe register would have been attractive to the Government and being a not for profit at no cost to the Taxpayer.

The HSE have already commented on this issue, the cost and bureaucracy of an identical scheme could not justified in terms of benefits, with gas installation failures there are much more wider risk of explosions, fires and multiple fatalities which is rarely the case with electrical faults, the present problems with GSR and the issues of people operating outside of the regulatory system because of cost will only escalate further if electricity was regulated. They also went on to point out as far as the electricians are concerned it is more of a standards and regulation issue rather than H&S and suggested UKAS was approached, the cost estimated by UKAS for such a scheme to mother you and tuck you up in bed was around £51m. Nobody wants me boo hoo

However, is the Government Biting? Does not look like it now at the present time. The scheme operators are not helping themselves by starting a turf war. And the government themselves may be wary of creating another shambolic Wreck like Part P is, since its introduction five day "Part P" courses have been offered to all and sundry to deem themselves "competent" to carry out electrical work.


The GSR have been criticised heavily lately over the level of their inspections, most are reactive after the event inspections when something has gone badly wrong, the others being where a consumer has noticed a problem or the usual contractor shopping another contractor scenario.

regards

-------------------------
"Take nothing but a picture,
leave nothing but footprints!"
-------------------------
"Oh! The drama of it all."
-------------------------
"You can throw all the philosophy you like at the problem, but at the end of the day it's just basic electrical theory!"
-------------------------
 19 December 2012 08:41 PM
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Zs

Posts: 2789
Joined: 20 July 2006

Originally posted by: John Peckham

We are urging our registered contractors not to provide their details to another similarly named web site or organisation purporting to act under the guise of safety. We believe it is merely a move to capture contact details for marketing purposes and a way to push forward their own commercial interests.

The other site does not have industry-wide support from the ESC or ECA and has unfortunately created confusion in the industry.



Any views?


Yes. WTF? ( where F = Fluke of course)

Isn't that libel? http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/libel


Zs

Edited: 19 December 2012 at 10:54 PM by Zs
 19 December 2012 09:03 PM
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SAMJAKE

Posts: 437
Joined: 05 June 2007

The games up you suckers, could have saved yourselves thousands.LOL
 19 December 2012 09:07 PM
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daveparry1

Posts: 6107
Joined: 04 July 2007

Could you expand on that statement Samjake? not quite with you there,

Dave.
 19 December 2012 09:31 PM
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Voltimax

Posts: 59
Joined: 15 July 2006

I notice that they don't actually name the other safety register. The NICEIC need a good ***** kicking.

-------------------------
This post has been Chuck Norris Approved.
 20 December 2012 09:11 AM
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Zoro

Posts: 130
Joined: 31 July 2011

Its a simple decision really, - ElectricSafe - an Open Brand, available to all Part P Scheme members, run by the Trade, join whatever Scheme is best for you.

Or the ECA NICEIC monopoly, a proprietary closed shop with no choice of what Scheme to join, you may as well just send them your credit card details.

.
 20 December 2012 09:27 AM
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Zoro

Posts: 130
Joined: 31 July 2011

Originally posted by: rocknroll

Originally posted by: jcm256

Gas Safe Register is the official gas registration body for the United Kingdom, Isle of Man and Guernsey, appointed by the relevant Health and Safety Authority for each area. (HSWI for Isle of Man..

By law all gas engineers must be on the Gas Safe Register. .

HSE awarded a 10 year contract to the Capita Group Plc to provide a new registration scheme for gas engineers - Gas Safe Register.

It may have thought that a private scheme to register Electricians on an

Electrical Safe register would have been attractive to the Government and being a not for profit at no cost to the Taxpayer.

The HSE have already commented on this issue, the cost and bureaucracy of an identical scheme could not justified in terms of benefits, with gas installation failures there are much more wider risk of explosions, fires and multiple fatalities which is rarely the case with electrical faults, the present problems with GSR and the issues of people operating outside of the regulatory system because of cost will only escalate further if electricity was regulated. They also went on to point out as far as the electricians are concerned it is more of a standards and regulation issue rather than H&S and suggested UKAS was approached, the cost estimated by UKAS for such a scheme to mother you and tuck you up in bed was around £51m. Nobody wants me boo hoo

However, is the Government Biting? Does not look like it now at the present time. The scheme operators are not helping themselves by starting a turf war. And the government themselves may be wary of creating another shambolic Wreck like Part P is, since its introduction five day "Part P" courses have been offered to all and sundry to deem themselves "competent" to carry out electrical work.


The GSR have been criticised heavily lately over the level of their inspections, most are reactive after the event inspections when something has gone badly wrong, the others being where a consumer has noticed a problem or the usual contractor shopping another contractor scenario.

regards


RnR what vested interest are you selling for?
This UKAS costed proposal that you keep quoting from every time GaSafe is mentioned (£51M/year), could you put a link in so that we can see the facts. You posted a section of the bid a few weeks ago, then took it down.

Capita quoted £18M/year for their contract, and the Gas guys pay £220/year, you keep banging on about their system not working, but it is considerably better than the Part P fiasco at £408 -£444.

Why are you masters so desperate to keep Part P.
 20 December 2012 09:41 AM
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normcall

Posts: 8111
Joined: 15 January 2005

Just remember, boys and gals, that we are only talking about part of the building regulations here. Many parts are totally ignored.
As a plumber said to me as water poured onto the floor from a damaged pipe - 'it's only water and will soon evaporate'. Most plumbing and heating comes under the building regulations, but you see/hear of very few building notice applications if a toilet is replaced!

-------------------------
Norman
IET » Wiring and the regulations » ON LINE REGISTERS

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