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Topic Title: Rant !
Topic Summary: G/Y Sleeving
Created On: 11 December 2012 01:13 PM
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 11 December 2012 10:39 PM
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Ricicle

Posts: 829
Joined: 23 October 2006

For the past 25 years I have always used the 'cheesewire' method (which I was taught at college!) but now as I am using more LSF cable I find it easier to strip with a knife.

-------------------------
Empty barrels make the most noise.
 11 December 2012 11:02 PM
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daveparry1

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I find Hi-Tuff is one of the most difficult to strip, being round it's not easy to keep the knife blade running straight and a bit too much pressure means the inner core insulation gets damaged. I usualy just lightly score it then peel it back with side cutters,

Dave.
 11 December 2012 11:11 PM
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jsa986

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Im sure this has been discussed before, anyway the cheese wire method has got to be better than cutting with a knife, surely more damage is caused by a sharp blade nicking conductors than pulling on the cpc a a bit!

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 11 December 2012 11:14 PM
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daveparry1

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That's what I reckon jsa!
 12 December 2012 01:16 AM
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hifly

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Originally posted by: daveparry1

I find Hi-Tuff is one of the most difficult to strip, being round it's not easy to keep the knife blade running straight and a bit too much pressure means the inner core insulation gets damaged. I usualy just lightly score it then peel it back with side cutters,

Dave.


you need one of these

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Knipex...id=1355274826&sr=8-109

-------------------------
Vince

Prove Dead Stay Alive


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 12 December 2012 06:07 AM
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mossep

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Youve a much greater chance of slicing your fingers using a knife too, cant be good practice!

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 12 December 2012 07:16 AM
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ebee

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Anyone who uses the cpc as a cheese-wire should be instantly garrotted for abuse of a cpc. Similarly those who put several cpcs in the same sleeve. Ruff as a badgers.

If you can not do it properly with a sharp knife then go practice on 75 reels of T & E until you get it right. This is how it was taught to proper Electricians.

Keep cpc separate in its own 2mm sleeving (under 4mm csa) and fold the end to terminate.
If you must twist then only at a socket on the last few mm that you are terminating and only providing you have plenty of length to cut back and remake when it snaps, never at a CU.

-------------------

As for buttons on jeans , yes I agree too. Although the point made about being caught by a zip does bring painful memories, especially when you know you then got to summon up the courage to run the zip back to release. Agghhh

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Regards,
Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
 12 December 2012 08:35 AM
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leckie

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Would you garrotte them using the cheesewire method ebee?
 12 December 2012 08:41 AM
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MrP

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On my site they use the American twisit connector with all terminations as per the connector "twisted"
I'm impressed with the integrity of the twisted connection via the connector a good solid connection I would say better than the pvc type commonly used in the UK
There is no T&E but all singles are twisted as standard good sturdy final connection
MrP Going home in 7days Inchallah
 12 December 2012 09:12 AM
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OMS

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Originally posted by: jsa986

Im sure this has been discussed before, anyway the cheese wire method has got to be better than cutting with a knife, surely more damage is caused by a sharp blade nicking conductors than pulling on the cpc a a bit!


Depends on whose wielding the knife i guess - traditionally, it was a lambsfoot blade, good steel, sharpened to an edge that would make Stanley jealous, and kept that way with a small whetstone in the toolbox.

In the hands of someone who was taught to use it and was in practice, stripping cable sheath was an easy job that caused no damage to conductors. You striped insulation with a pliers and doubled over conductors for termination - no twisting involved. Use 2.0mm sleeving for conductors up to 4.0mm2.

No fuss, no bother - job done on time, right first time - every time.

Regards

OMS

-------------------------
Failure is always an option
 12 December 2012 09:39 AM
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AJJewsbury

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Originally posted by: hifly

Originally posted by: daveparry1



I find Hi-Tuff is one of the most difficult to strip, being round it's not easy to keep the knife blade running straight and a bit too much pressure means the inner core insulation gets damaged. I usualy just lightly score it then peel it back with side cutters,



Dave.




you need one of these



http://www.amazon.co.uk/Knipex...id=1355274826&sr=8-109


This kind: blue tube are easier when the cable's emerging through a back-box.

- Andy
 12 December 2012 01:51 PM
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ebee

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Originally posted by: OMS

Originally posted by: jsa986



Im sure this has been discussed before, anyway the cheese wire method has got to be better than cutting with a knife, surely more damage is caused by a sharp blade nicking conductors than pulling on the cpc a a bit!




Depends on whose wielding the knife i guess - traditionally, it was a lambsfoot blade, good steel, sharpened to an edge that would make Stanley jealous, and kept that way with a small whetstone in the toolbox.



In the hands of someone who was taught to use it and was in practice, stripping cable sheath was an easy job that caused no damage to conductors. You striped insulation with a pliers and doubled over conductors for termination - no twisting involved. Use 2.0mm sleeving for conductors up to 4.0mm2.



No fuss, no bother - job done on time, right first time - every time.



Regards



OMS


Spot on OMS

-------------------------
Regards,
Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
 12 December 2012 02:10 PM
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SherlockOhms

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If memory serves, as an apprentice, our knives were short lengths of old hacksaw blades. One end wrapped with self amalgamating the other ground to a razors edge on the wheel.

Like a hot knife through the preverbial butter.

T+E. Grab a length, score along it just above the cpc, peel it back. Snip it off. To date I don't recall ever damaging a core (or finger for that matter).

S.
 12 December 2012 02:30 PM
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KFH

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More years ago than I can remember I was taught to loop the T&E at an accessory on a ring/radial so that no conductors were cut so the cpc was always in one sleeve, not twisted though, never do that now though.

I was also taught to stick the knife through the center of T&E and pull it through, this never seemed to touch the insulation on the live cores if you did it confidently on a straight piece of T&E. How ever having lost confidence as now it is my money I am loosing if I do manage to damage a conductor I will admit to being a cheese wire user although I like to score the outer insulation first.

Now where can I get G/Y sleeving big enough to fit four or more twisted cpcs in for ceiling roses?
I may as well start doing it properly :-)
 12 December 2012 02:46 PM
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vesuvius

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You wouldn't get away with knives now in most colleges, it would be at the lecturers discretion to use whatever tools he felt necessary, but if a student cut himself open the lecturer is the one who has to take the heat. Such is our modern day claim society. As a result I would never have a knife about me in a classroom and have always taught stripping with pliers.
 12 December 2012 03:23 PM
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daveparry1

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Soon it will be screwdrivers and side cutters which are not allowed! This country is becoming more of a joke day by day, we're the laughing stock of the world!!

Dave.
 12 December 2012 04:16 PM
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OMS

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Originally posted by: vesuvius

You wouldn't get away with knives now in most colleges, it would be at the lecturers discretion to use whatever tools he felt necessary, but if a student cut himself open the lecturer is the one who has to take the heat. Such is our modern day claim society. As a result I would never have a knife about me in a classroom and have always taught stripping with pliers.


That is perhaps the most disheartening post I've seen in a long time - do you guys teach basic workshop skills at all then ?

Regards

OMS

-------------------------
Failure is always an option

Edited: 12 December 2012 at 04:26 PM by OMS
 12 December 2012 05:12 PM
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rocknroll

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You wouldn't get away with knives now in most colleges

Well knives are available from Central to be used in teaching craft skills the only stipulation being they cannot be issued to primary schools and the Stanley type knives must have a retractable blade and any blades stored in the handle must be removed before issue.

For electrical craft skills the CK 484001 electricians knife is available for issue, as with any tool it relies on the tutor to teach a student how to use the item safely.

PS; The CK Lambsfoot knife is also available on the stock list.

regards

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"Take nothing but a picture,
leave nothing but footprints!"
-------------------------
"Oh! The drama of it all."
-------------------------
"You can throw all the philosophy you like at the problem, but at the end of the day it's just basic electrical theory!"
-------------------------

Edited: 12 December 2012 at 05:23 PM by rocknroll
 12 December 2012 07:07 PM
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John Peckham

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I don't normally teach the 2330/installation courses but due to the shortage of lecturers I find myself filling in on Fridays teaching young people.As knives are banned on a lot of sites and the students in their tool kits are no longer issued with knives due to them taking their kits backwards and forwards to college and the possible implications I am teaching the cheese wire method of stripping T&E. I am going to be teaching termination of SWA cables and I have been discussing how I would approach this in a safe manner and the controlled issue of knives and their safe use and accounting for them in and out of the stores.

I find myself not only teaching technical skills but also social skills to give the young students the best chance possible of getting a job. It is an uphill battle as they have no idea of how to behave as no one I think has ever told them of what they need to do fit in with the expectations of potential employers. I think I am winning with most of them.

Half of me thinks I am wasting my time and the other half of me feels sorry for these kids as most of them have no chance of getting a job, none of them have jobs, unless I can turn them around. I just wonder how I would have turned out if I had come from their backgrounds and was starting out trying to get a job today.

I certainly don't do it for the money as I can earn a lot more than the college pay me doing my normal day job and I am cream crackered when I get home after a day in the workshop. So it's no twisting of conductors together, one CPC down one bit of sleeving, and testing their work as they go and getting them to fill out a test results sheet. I had all my 2391 test kits out which they would not normally see let alone touch and photocopies of the Appendix 6 test sheets and I was getting a good few smiles.

So that is what us teachers are teaching tomorrows (hopefully) electricians!

-------------------------
John Peckham

http://www.astutetechnicalservices.co.uk/
 12 December 2012 07:24 PM
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GeoffBlackwell

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As knives are banned on a lot of sites and the students in their tool kits are no longer issued with knives


Ah so I suppose all the trainee chefs are being taught to rip food apart with their bare hands - or a claw maybe - food presentation will never be the same .
Regards

Geoff Blackwell
IET » Wiring and the regulations » Rant !

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