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Topic Title: Gas bonding if there isn't a meter
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Created On: 04 December 2012 10:49 AM
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 04 December 2012 10:49 AM
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jnd47

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Joined: 18 January 2003

Hi all,
If the gas meter is not fitted (using Economy 7), but there is still a (capped-off) pipe coming into the meter cupboard (in the wall outside), does the earth bonding need to be connected to this?
I thought the bonding is usually connected on the customer's side of the meter, which in this case is not present!

John
 04 December 2012 10:58 AM
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MrP

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Hi John

Doesn't how good you are you cant bond something that's not there

The answer to your question is no

MrP
 04 December 2012 11:08 AM
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spinlondon

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If the gas pipe entered the building and was capped off under the stairs, in the cellar or even in the front room, then it would require bonding.
As it's to a meter cupboard outside, then no no bonding required.
 04 December 2012 11:13 AM
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AJJewsbury

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Reading 544.1.2, the 2nd sentence doesn't apply as there's no meter or insulating insert; 3rd sentence doesn't apply as there's no meter, so you're just left with "The main equipotential bonding connection to any gas, water or other service shall be made as near as practicable to the point of entry of that service into the premises.", which to me says bond what's there.

However, it would only need bonding if it's an accessible extraneous-conductive-part - so it might be worth a quick test - if it's supplied by plastic pipe it might not be extraneous. Similarly if it were boxed in so that it couldn't be touched (although I'm not sure what the gas regs say about restricting air movement around pipework which might cause gas to accumulate if there was a leak).

- Andy.
 04 December 2012 11:24 AM
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jsa986

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Andy thats a bit of a stretch, from Op's description it doesn't enter the premises, the meter cupboard is outside on a wall, so I agree with the others NO requirement to bond

I think the wording "point of entry of that service INTO the premises.", is clear on this

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 04 December 2012 11:36 AM
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AJJewsbury

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Andy thats a bit of a stretch, from Op's description it doesn't enter the premises, the meter cupboard is outside on a wall, so I agree with the others NO requirement to bond

Ah fair point - I'd read it as something like a wooden cupboard inside the building (understairs cupboard, DIY enclosure etc) against the inside face of an outside wall. If it's the modern outdoor meter cabinet, I agree, it doesn't enter the premises - so no bond required.
- Andy.
 04 December 2012 11:40 AM
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OMS

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What work is going on there - if you are rewiring, modifying, altering etc - it might be work chucking in a bit of green and yellow for future use, maybe

Regards

OMS

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 04 December 2012 12:17 PM
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jnd47

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It's a modern meter cabinet, and it's about to be rewired, so I'll make sure the cable is in place anyway.

Thanks,
John
 04 December 2012 04:24 PM
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MrP

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Now I'm not the smartest guy as you can tell from previous posts but why would you put a cable in when you don't have to
Why not pull in a bit 6mm T&E in the loft just in case they have a shower
Or run in a couple of armoureds just in case they have some garden lighting

You wouldn't so why run in a bit of green and yellow when you don't have to

As I have stated many times on this forum we are in this game to put food on the table
I presume your scope is to rewire as per 7671
pretty certain 7671 doesn't say you put cables in just in case

MrP
 04 December 2012 04:47 PM
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AJJewsbury

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we are in this game to put food on the table

No argument. But it's a chance to talk to the customer, point out the possible problem (damage to decor etc) should they opt to have the gas re-connected in future and offer a pre-emptive solution. Charge accordingly if they take you up on it. Potential for more profit, not less, I would have thought.

- Andy.
 04 December 2012 04:53 PM
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rougediablo

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Originally posted by: MrP

Now I'm not the smartest guy as you can tell from previous posts but why would you put a cable in when you don't have to

Why not pull in a bit 6mm T&E in the loft just in case they have a shower

Or run in a couple of armoureds just in case they have some garden lighting



You wouldn't so why run in a bit of green and yellow when you don't have to



As I have stated many times on this forum we are in this game to put food on the table

I presume your scope is to rewire as per 7671

pretty certain 7671 doesn't say you put cables in just in case



MrP


I would have thought a bit of communication with the customer about future works might be appropriate, suggest things & if they are prepared to pay for it put it in, if not & it's not a requirement, leave it out. I was always tought to think of the spark who comes in after you eg leave a bit of slack in cable etc.

As OMS says it won't break the bank to put a length of G&Y in now to save a bigger job in the future.
 04 December 2012 05:04 PM
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John Peckham

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It says in the NICEIC Technical Manual (or whatever this weeks name for it is) that you are not allowed to bond the Gas Service pipe without the consent of Transco which I assume now means National Grid. Bonding should only be applied to the installation pipe which is the one after the meter.

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John Peckham

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 04 December 2012 05:12 PM
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daveparry1

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That does always seem strange to me John, after all gas meters are metal so when we bond the consumers side we are automatically bonding their service pipe. Also, what we are concerned with is introducing a potential from the pipe coming out of the ground just as with the water so I never really see why we don't bond on the service pipe as that's the part thats in the ground! Just one of those things i've often wondered about,

Dave.
 04 December 2012 05:15 PM
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OMS

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I don't think I mentioned doing it gratis Mr P - just that it would be a sensible thing to do. (future proofing and all that)

Regards

OMS

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 04 December 2012 05:22 PM
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AJJewsbury

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I never really see why we don't bond on the service pipe as that's the part thats in the ground!

Me too.

all gas meters are metal so when we bond the consumers side we are automatically bonding their service pipe

unless someone's fitted a 'METER INSULATING NUT' - http://www.bes.co.uk/products/036.asp
... in which case we've bonded the wrong side? (especially as it's the inlet that usually has the control valve handle to grab hold of).

- Andy.
 04 December 2012 05:57 PM
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MrP

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OMS I know you wouldn't do it for nothing after all you're a consultant you have your proffesional standing to think of
But I'm sure there's plenty of guys on here who would do it for nothing

I await "its only an off cut, I had the boards up anyway"
Showers and garden lighting

MrP home in 15days can't wait
 04 December 2012 06:10 PM
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OMS

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LoL - maybe, just talk to the client, explain the reason/benefit and give him the choice

Regards

OMS

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Failure is always an option
 04 December 2012 06:40 PM
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spinlondon

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Originally posted by: John Peckham
It says in the NICEIC Technical Manual (or whatever this weeks name for it is) that you are not allowed to bond the Gas Service pipe without the consent of Transco which I assume now means National Grid. Bonding should only be applied to the installation pipe which is the one after the meter.


Yes permission should be obtained from the supplier before a bonding conductor is attached to their pipe work.
However in the OP's case, the supply is redundant, and it is likely to be introducing a difference in potential.
As such I wouldn't bother asking permision, if they don't like it, then they can remove their extraneous-conductive-part.
 04 December 2012 06:43 PM
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UKPN

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-----same confusion over a simple situation.
obviously the clue is E7 heating. gas main was installed but
never utilised.
in any event equipotential bonding is required inside the premises, not outside. outside becomes a risk area and special precautions are needed.

Regards.

"future proof"?
 04 December 2012 07:13 PM
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OMS

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"future proof"?


I appreciate it'll be an unfamiliar, even an alien concept to you DNO guys - but it's quite common in engineering circles, trust me - I'm a consultant -

in any event equipotential bonding is required inside the premises, not outside. outside becomes a risk area and special precautions are needed.


Who said it would be connected to anything other than a future installation pipe after the meter (which is in a wall mounted cabinet) - thatt sounds pretty "inside" the zone of protection to me

Regards

OMS

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Failure is always an option
IET » Wiring and the regulations » Gas bonding if there isn't a meter

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