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Topic Title: --DNO, PME, SNE and Business Network Operators.
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Created On: 29 November 2012 09:24 PM
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 29 November 2012 11:52 PM
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Avatar for OMS.
OMS

Posts: 19462
Joined: 23 March 2004

Extensively John - it also has very dubious terminology relating to earthing and bonding.

Interesting that UKPN use the term "Bonding" in 10.2.3 as :

At customer's premises between service neutral and main earthing terminal - 16mm2 or half the size of the neutral meter tail, whichever is the larger.
Note: This is usually built into the cut-out


Clearly then this the N-E Link

and

At customer's premises between the main earthing terminal and the earth bar of the consumer unit - 16mm2 or half the size of the neutral meter tail, whichever is the larger

Note: The bonding between the main earthing terminal and the consumer unit is the responsibility of the consumer. It is given here for information only.


Now I suspect most of us would recognise that bit of cable as the earthing lead - it isn't a bonding conductor technically


Note also the requirement for:

The customer's installation complies with BS 7671.

So, UKPN appear to recognise BS 7671 - but appear to have instructed thier employees or agents to ignore it in favour of some unidentified source of information which requires anyone who listens to bond plastic pipes

Regards

OMS

-------------------------
Failure is always an option
 30 November 2012 12:29 AM
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Avatar for Legh.
Legh

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Originally posted by: OMS

Are you on a journey of rediscovery UKPN

is your consultant giving dodgy advice-like you dont have to main bond services anymore?

well---who do you trust!


LoL - now did I say that ? - wasn't it actually regarding bonding a plastic water main - do try and keep up, there's a good fellow

Regards

OMS


This one might run for a bit.....
Now, so I and others can keep in the loop, I think the thread you are referring to is This One

correct me if I'm wrong....

Now, where did those wretched turkeys go to?



Legh

-------------------------
Why do we need Vernier Calipers when we have container ships?

http://www.leghrichardson.co.uk

"Science has overcome time and space. Well, Harvey has overcome not only time and space - but any objections."
 30 November 2012 02:21 AM
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Avatar for OMS.
OMS

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I found this in UKPN's favourite guidebook:

10.4.3 Connection to Cable Sheath/Armouring at the Cut-out

The metallic sheath and armouring of underground service cables shall be connected to the earth terminal, neutral terminal or neutral connector block as appropriate, by means of a copper conductor of minimum cross-sectional area as specified in Section 10.2.3. The connection to the cable sheath should be made by means of either an earthing clamp (e.g.one which complies with the tests specified in BS 951) or a substantial sweated connection in accordance with the LV Cable Jointing manual.


Perhaps a tad suprising to see the DNO actually advocating the use of such a clamp despite the standard advising they are not intended for connection to the armour or sheath of a cable.

Regards

OMS

-------------------------
Failure is always an option
 30 November 2012 07:50 AM
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ebee

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I wonder why they say "complies with the TESTS" rather than "complies with the STANDARD" ?

Devious? LOL

So all these old dodgy slack "YEB" earth clamps on incomming TNS I see are no longer dodgy? Hmm, I`d have more faith in paperclips as connectors

-------------------------
Regards,
Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
 30 November 2012 09:32 PM
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MrOther

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All this over some plastic pipe and bonding?
 30 November 2012 10:18 PM
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Avatar for Legh.
Legh

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Originally posted by: MrOther

All this over some plastic pipe and bonding?


Metal impregnated perhaps ?.....
Back to the OP. There is a reason why UKPN feels it to be the correct solution to bond the metal water pipes within the installation as close to the water authorities plastic pipe.?
Perhaps he has heard or knows something about the condition of the the DNO's PME supplies?

Maybe UKPN would give us all a Friday night answer?



Legh

come to think of it, a straight sensible answer would be more appropriate.
Don't you think?

-------------------------
Why do we need Vernier Calipers when we have container ships?

http://www.leghrichardson.co.uk

"Science has overcome time and space. Well, Harvey has overcome not only time and space - but any objections."

Edited: 30 November 2012 at 10:28 PM by Legh
 30 November 2012 10:24 PM
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slittle

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Originally posted by: Legh

Originally posted by: OMS



Are you on a journey of rediscovery UKPN



is your consultant giving dodgy advice-like you dont have to main bond services anymore?



well---who do you trust!




LoL - now did I say that ? - wasn't it actually regarding bonding a plastic water main - do try and keep up, there's a good fellow



Regards



OMS




This one might run for a bit.....

Now, so I and others can keep in the loop, I think the thread you are referring to is This One



correct me if I'm wrong....



Now, where did those wretched turkeys go to?







Legh



From what I hear the turkeys are starting to find out what Christmas means to them. I don't want to tell those that haven't discovered the meaning of Christmas (to a turkey) what's going to happen as I 'm sure they don't need to know.......





Stu
 30 November 2012 10:35 PM
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Avatar for Legh.
Legh

Posts: 3472
Joined: 17 December 2004

Originally posted by: slittle

Originally posted by: Legh

Originally posted by: OMS

Are you on a journey of rediscovery UKPN

is your consultant giving dodgy advice-like you dont have to main bond services anymore?

well---who do you trust!


LoL - now did I say that ? - wasn't it actually regarding bonding a plastic water main - do try and keep up, there's a good fellow

Regards

OMS


This one might run for a bit.....
Now, so I and others can keep in the loop, I think the thread you are referring to is This One

correct me if I'm wrong....

Now, where did those wretched turkeys go to?



Legh


From what I hear the turkeys are starting to find out what Christmas means to them. I don't want to tell those that haven't discovered the meaning of Christmas (to a turkey) what's going to happen as I 'm sure they don't need to know.......

Stu


Lol, My advice would be to keep them warm and comfortable...and then turn up the heat !

What about the couple you keep stashed away in the back of your van?
They must be up for it by now....

Legh

-------------------------
Why do we need Vernier Calipers when we have container ships?

http://www.leghrichardson.co.uk

"Science has overcome time and space. Well, Harvey has overcome not only time and space - but any objections."
 01 December 2012 05:16 AM
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Avatar for ebee.
ebee

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"A Turkey is for life! Not just for Christmas"

-------------------------
Regards,
Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
 01 December 2012 10:30 AM
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perspicacious

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"What about the couple you keep stashed away in the back of your van?
They must be up for it by now...."


Would it help my understanding of this if I were to read the whole topic?

Regards

BAD
 01 December 2012 10:37 AM
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Avatar for ebee.
ebee

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Joined: 02 December 2004



-------------------------
Regards,
Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
 03 December 2012 01:11 PM
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BigRed

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Joined: 10 November 2006

Originally posted by: UKPN

tomorrow-like every day since the mid-sixtys electricians

all over our land will accept the advice of their DNO/Meter op

and bond to their requirements.


I enjoy these topics but I cannot quote non-statutory books

to my customers. the wiring regs are not an act of parliament

and the guides are generally helpful but to hear posters saying

the words like "rules" is a step too far.



tomorrow all over this land our customers electricians will

bond main services regardless of if they are plastic origin.



millions of them have followed this advice and will continue into

the future.



and we have only been discussing water/gas, there are many

more.



I have NEVER had a contractor dispute my earthing advice

and talking about "more than 22k" and "low risk" "how many shocks have there been anyway" is rediculous.



UKPN will look after you!



Regards.


Will we F**k as like, i'll checl the requirements by law and tell the DNO to read their regs when they tell me that a BS951 clamp will do. Ever seen a PILCS go bang? not pretty.
 03 December 2012 01:19 PM
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johno12345

Posts: 169
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my DNO said the bs951 clamp on my pilc supply was fine and if i wanted to do anything about it, id have to pay for it to be converted to TNCS

all they did was tighten it up a bit
 03 December 2012 01:21 PM
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BigRed

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It is up to the dno to maintain, important word there, their kit, including a current form of earthing. They can tighten their own bs951's.
 03 December 2012 01:25 PM
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Avatar for BigRed.
BigRed

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half of them wouldn't know a hepworth clamp if it came up and bit them on the a**
 03 December 2012 01:31 PM
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johno12345

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and tighten it they did! dug nicely into the lead now!

shame its only 20m from the substation, be a spectacular bang if it ever goes
 03 December 2012 01:34 PM
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Avatar for BigRed.
BigRed

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I had an installation, where they did this , complained to teh DNO, they came and fitted a hepworth
 03 December 2012 01:43 PM
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johno12345

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is a hepworth one of those constant pressure spring things?

i kept quiet, i dont want to be converted to tncs
 03 December 2012 01:48 PM
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BigRed

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it is jonno.
God forbid, TNCS? TNCS on an old PILCS only means that last joint to earth is at the service head, not outside the house or whever they joined it to earth under the pavement. In brum, we get ze on PME at 0.1-0.2 ohms! Helps having that rising water table!
 03 December 2012 02:09 PM
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johno12345

Posts: 169
Joined: 22 October 2005

I dont recall his exact words, but when they changed the fused neutral cutout, the dno man put his 'earth tester' between phase and neutral and declared 0.1 and that it was good and that it was therefore suitable for PME

it was after that that they started messing with the bs951 clamp, where the earth comes from that i actually use

im not an electrician but i did get an electrician to test the earth value on the house, and it was fine through the clamp
IET » Wiring and the regulations » --DNO, PME, SNE and Business Network Operators.

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