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Topic Title: Certifying my own work
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Created On: 20 November 2012 09:20 PM
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 20 November 2012 09:20 PM
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martin150

Posts: 3
Joined: 20 November 2012

Hi all, i am doing a full 3 bed semi re-wire for a family friend. They want a installation cert. after it is done.

Am i able to pass this to them myself? I am confident in testing, but I am not part p, nor registered with a NICEIC etc, as i work for a large engineering company, but I am a qualified electrician - NVQ 2&3, BTEC - electrical/electronic engineering, C&G 2392, 17th edition. Does this deem me as competant for new works?

I have searched high and low and i think i can, but i cannot come up with a concrete answer, so i have resorted to posting a thread.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
 20 November 2012 09:30 PM
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daveparry1

Posts: 5891
Joined: 04 July 2007

You can issue them an EIC but the job will need to be notified to Building Control, also they should have been notified before you started the work if you're not registered on a competent person scheme. It is all explained in the part P regulations,

Dave.
 20 November 2012 09:37 PM
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SKElectrical

Posts: 893
Joined: 01 February 2009

Your experience may well make you competent, although I think you need to have 17th edition knowledge to adequately do the rewire (including certification).

But even all of the above doesn't comply with building regulations, which is what your local authority wants.
Some local authorities (very few) are happy if the electrician can prove competency - but this would usually require qualifications in testing and current wiring regs
 20 November 2012 10:27 PM
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Martynduerden

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Joined: 13 July 2008

This question always irritates me, though not irritated at the op

It is not a question of can you certify your work, you MUST certify your work if you are not competent to certify you cannot install.

I here people say so often " I can install it but I'm not allowed/cannot give you a certificate" this is utter rubbish part p has nothing to do with bs7671 - you must install to British standard which means you must issue a certificate.

The building regs are completely different it is the homeowners responsibility to comply with BR if it is domestic work.

If you are not part p reg then your client / you notify BC and crack on but you must still issue an EIC.

-------------------------
Regards

Martyn.

Only a mediocre person is always at their best



www.electrical contractors uk.com
 20 November 2012 10:35 PM
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mikejumper

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It's your family friend, ie. your customer that is responsible for ensuring work in their property complies with the requirements of Part P.

They can do this two ways:

Employ a part P registered electrician.

Or

Use an unregistered electrician and notify building control and pay their fee before work starts.
 20 November 2012 11:01 PM
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martin150

Posts: 3
Joined: 20 November 2012

Thanks all for your help, its confirmed my thoughts, that it depends on the building control as to whether i can test and then give them my results or have them in to test after (or a contractor they use i am led to believe!), i am not concerned about getting them in as i am confident that it will pass first fix inspection to the regs.

I know its to stop cowboys, but it is annoying that my friend will have to fork out over £300 for the privilege.


Thanks again
 20 November 2012 11:19 PM
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mikejumper

Posts: 1672
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Originally posted by: martin150
I know its to stop cowboys, but it is annoying that my friend will have to fork out over £300 for the privilege.

How do you know it will cost over £300?
 21 November 2012 07:01 AM
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normcall

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It's all a bit of a lottery.
Round my way, the fee gets paid and, in my case as I'm known, I issue the required cert to comply with BS7671. Send a copy in LABC when job done and often I'll get a call to arrange for one of the BC people to have a look-see and several jobs. Never a problem so far, but they have sent all their inspectors on a week course to show them what to look for.

I went to another area 3 or 4 years ago just to rewire the lighting circuit, replace the CSU complete with bonding and earthing provision. Sent in the cert detailing what it covered and waited. They then sent a contractor to inspect who then promptly inspected everything and decided the rest of the bungalow needed sorting and wouldn't pass the work - unfortunately my customer was a multi-millionaire, know the top brass at the council and MP. I never heard another word.

Looking at other possible assorted works in another area, they have 3 sets of fee. Registered contractors £0, those who not not registered but 'can' issue BS7671 certs, it's about £200 and for others it's over £800 - but includes up to 4 visits by an electrical contractor appointed by them to inspect and issue a certificate.

Being a bright lad, I thought I'd ask how/where I'd fit as obviously to comply with BS7671 a cert has to be issued. It seems the question has never been asked, so if it comes off, a longer chat will be required.

There has to be a better way!!

-------------------------
Norman
 21 November 2012 08:06 AM
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daveparry1

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There has to be a better way!!
----------
There is Norm, just be registered with a scheme, much simpler, easier, and in the long-run very much cheaper if you're doing regular work as a business! (not for a one off job of course)

Dave.
 21 November 2012 09:26 AM
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normcall

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I was an approved contractor (class 1 in those days- note the I, not a we!)) - left for a number of reasons including having to sort out other 'approved' works due to only one person actually inspected.
Asked if I could become a 'registered' contractor when the scam was introduced only to be told I'd have to pass this, that, and the other.
As the 'system' hadn't actually changed I really didn't (don't) see the point in contributing to a flawed system.

As to cost, as others have pointed out, it's down to the customer, not me, to pay any LABC fee. Mind you, I often wonder why electrics get singled out when we all know how much 'building' work should be notified and a fee paid - I wonder how my plumbers notify if they install a shower or extra WC? Come to that how many of us check we we add additional load?

-------------------------
Norman
 21 November 2012 10:27 AM
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AJJewsbury

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How do you know it will cost over £300?

Sounds plausible - it cost me over £200 +VAT (on top of other building control notification fees) for me to be able to re-wire my new place.
- Andy.
 21 November 2012 10:58 AM
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daveparry1

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So for another £250 (to be a scheme member) you could re-wire as many places as you want Andy! You probably wouldn't want to but just pointing out the advantages of "club" membership. It puzzles me the fuss and moaning that some people here make about being a scheme member, I know it's down to the customer to notify BC and pay the charges but if they quote a price say for a c/u change and then the customer has to pay 200-300 quid on top to BC it makes for a very expensive job, conversely if the person doing the work is registered, taking an average of say 25 notifications a year (about my level being sole trader) the cost is about 20 quid per job, easily absorbable whithin the quote,

Dave.
 21 November 2012 11:57 AM
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AJJewsbury

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So for another £250 (to be a scheme member) you could re-wire as many places as you want Andy!

Ah, but I'm only a humble DIYer - this one job (along with the rest of the renovation) is looking like taking me the best part of 3 years!
- Andy.
 21 November 2012 12:02 PM
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vesuvius

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You have a level 3 qualification in electrical so you would be considered an electrician, this is a statement of your your competancy.

You can indeed certify your own work. You can even make up your own test sheets the only stipulation is that you include no less than in the standard forms supplied with BS7671 and GN3 (current editions of course)
 21 November 2012 02:46 PM
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normcall

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Dave - your logic is impeccable, but I've tried to convince customers that it would be cheaper to go elsewhere but they do resist.
Something about trust - which says a lot about the construction industry with electricians and plumbers in particular.
I even have a customer who keeps telling me I'm too expensive, if I was cheaper she could recommend me to her friends and when I suggest she asks her friends who they use so she could get a better/cheaper job, all I get is a shrug of the shoulders and who else would put up with her!

I really can't win.

-------------------------
Norman
 21 November 2012 06:22 PM
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daveparry1

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I know what you mean Norm, the majority of my work is from recommendations and existing/previous customers and I really do try to price myself out of some jobs or try putting them off by saying I can't do it for 3-4 weeks but it doesn't usually work!

Dave.
 21 November 2012 06:43 PM
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martin150

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Joined: 20 November 2012

I know it will cost £300 as that is what BC have quoted me for inspecting the works and then certifying the works.

I appreciate it costing not much more to get approved, butI cannot warrant going to NICEIC etc as i do not do many private jobs outside of my normal work so probably could not satisfy their tick sheets.

I think it best i test the installation and then pass it to my friends to pass over to BC to approve after. Seems the least fuss.

Vesuvious - is that a fact that as a level 3 trained, to the latest regs and testing/inspect, i am deemed a competent person?

Thanks for the advice guys, this one has been going around the bazaars for me for ages.
 21 November 2012 07:59 PM
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mikejumper

Posts: 1672
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Originally posted by: martin150
I think it best i test the installation and then pass it to my friends to pass over to BC to approve after. Seems the least fuss.

You need to get them involved now because they need to inspect 1st and 2nd fix.

If you are capable of issuing an EIC on completion of the work your LABC may accept this from you if they consider you competent.

This doesn't mean you don't have to pay them a fee for 1st and 2nd fix inspection, but it may be reduced.
 22 November 2012 12:16 PM
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tomgunn

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Originally posted by: daveparry1

So for another £250 (to be a scheme member) you could re-wire as many places as you want Andy! You probably wouldn't want to but just pointing out the advantages of "club" membership. It puzzles me the fuss and moaning that some people here make about being a scheme member, I know it's down to the customer to notify BC and pay the charges but if they quote a price say for a c/u change and then the customer has to pay 200-300 quid on top to BC it makes for a very expensive job, conversely if the person doing the work is registered, taking an average of say 25 notifications a year (about my level being sole trader) the cost is about 20 quid per job, easily absorbable whithin the quote,



Dave.

Well I will tell you how its flawed and a farce too! I am not on a rant and I have been a good boy for a long time on here... so I deserve a little poke at this!

I have met several 'sparks' onsite that admit that sometimes, ( whatever 'sometimes' equates to ), that due to saving time they make up the calculations and guess what they will be and fill in the certs.... also I have seen it many times where the person doing the wiring isnt a qualified sparks but he / they get they 'mates' to sign the work off... plus... because its highly illegal to not pay fees to someone or another, ( council / prat P schemes... colleges that have once again been given the task of scrapping yet another set of 2391987635424's or similar and force us poor sparks to go to college... ask dopey questions on here cos we're worried that we wont pass the new 2391-71776514 exam... that WILL be superseded within the next 17 weeks or less.... etc ), you cannot do it yourself anymore ... so where does this leave the 'system'? Well, for one - people now know about it and so theres more private individuals doing it behind closed doors and not paying anyone and more than likely the works not up to the required standard but if they could go through a proper electrician then the probabilities would be that they would... also we now have our new friends from Europe to deal with as they'll do sparking and alter gas works and I have seen this as I was asked to alter a gas mains sometime ago and, although I am a plumber, I said no so this Polish chap did it and when the Asian country of Europe, ( Turkey ), joins our Europe well - god knows what will happen etc!!

As I have mentioned many times on here I used to be a class 'A' registered NIC EIC contractor but I really don't wanna do this anymore so I avoid joing yet another scam provider!

RCDs - have a known fault that a certain percentage will fail also they are supposed to be reset every six months - but who knows anyone that does this? I have a mixture of 3036 and olde MCBs and I wont change them for the world... I have just sold my house so if they want to change it then thats up to them - split boards and the RYB... hahaha what a mess!

Oh well... thats me done for anuvver few months.

regards... Tom

and... relaxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

-------------------------
Tom .... ( The TERMINATOR ).

handyTRADESMAN ... haha

Castle Builders

Why did Nick Clegg cross the road? Because he said he wouldn't!

I can resist anything..... except temptation! ( Karl Gunn ).
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