IET logo
 
IET
Decrease font size
Increase font size
Topic Title: Change from gas heating to electric
Topic Summary:
Created On: 10 November 2012 12:03 PM
Status: Post and Reply
Linear : Threading : Single : Branch
1 2 3 Next Last unread
Search Topic Search Topic
Topic Tools Topic Tools
View similar topics View similar topics
View topic in raw text format. Print this topic.
 10 November 2012 12:03 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



Zs

Posts: 2789
Joined: 20 July 2006

Morning,

I've been giving some thought to changing from gas to electric heating. I currently use a tank for hot water and am not on a combi boiler. I use two open fires as well. The following reasons;

1) Gas fitters sucking their teeth and recommending the option that suits them. I don't want a combi, I need to be able to run a bath in two minutes and like the back-up of an immersion for times when the boiler goes wrong. They really are fixated on combi boilers.

2) Some electric radiators and heaters are really nice looking these days.

3) an extra cupboard where the boiler currently lives

4) get rid of the expansion tank in the loft and have a bigger water tank there for a pumped shower.

5) I can fix my own electrics and offer myself diversity between heater circuits so it will not be all or nothing.

6) The running cost doesn't look too different. I'm still looking at that.

Have any of you made such a change and do you have any views?

Zs
 10 November 2012 12:32 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for potential.
potential

Posts: 1255
Joined: 01 February 2007

I've recently installed two storage radiators to back up my existing collection of gas wall-mounted room heaters (the balanced flue type).
Although my gas is nearly half the price per kilowatt (low tariff) compared to economy 7 the heating costs are almost the same.
That is based on two facts.
The gas wall heaters are about 70% efficient whereas the electric are 100%.
There is a stepped tariff with gas (the first units consumed are charged at a much higher tariff) whereas the economy 7 has a flat rate for nightime consumption.

The ones I've installed are Dimplex XLS12N which respond to the room temperature.
i.e. if the room is cold they store more heat and vica versa.
I've been monitoring their consumption and they appear to work quite well.
 10 November 2012 12:37 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



John Peckham

Posts: 7376
Joined: 23 April 2005

Look at the cost per kWh for gas and then look at electricity.

I have a house with no gas so have to use E7 heating and an immersion. I would not have this if the house had a gas supply.

-------------------------
John Peckham

http://www.astutetechnicalservices.co.uk/
 10 November 2012 01:15 PM
User is online View Users Profile Print this message



Fm

Posts: 648
Joined: 24 August 2011

Stick with the gas its cheaper to run.

Get a system boiler with back upimmersion, get a solar coil and some evac tubes onthe roof and a spare coil fora fire for a back boiler on the woodburning stove.

Everythings covered, thats what im going for when i do my extension.
 10 November 2012 02:32 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



Pacific

Posts: 588
Joined: 29 January 2005

Originally posted by: Fm

Stick with the gas its cheaper to run.



Get a system boiler with back upimmersion, get a solar coil and some evac tubes onthe roof and a spare coil fora fire for a back boiler on the woodburning stove.



Everythings covered, thats what im going for when i do my extension.


Is it always cheaper to use gas, have you taken into account servicing and repairs, as Zs says she can do her own maintenance, my boiler is coming to the end of its life after 18 years, its going to cost at least £1K to replace, I also have 2 storage heaters as background heat which I fitted myself and never touched for 15 years

I have had the boiler stripped down 3 times and spent hundreds on spare parts

 10 November 2012 03:28 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



Zs

Posts: 2789
Joined: 20 July 2006

Intersting FM, I'm keeping an eye on consumption at the moment, particularly at any time when I heat everything from cold and then keep it ticking for a few hours. I'm doing a slection of options and I'll post the results. It does have to be a sensible financial option, you might be right.

But, as Pacific says, I am taking running costs into account. I could really do with some modifications to the pipe work, probably a new boiler, and I'd love a pumped shower so this seems the right time to weigh up the options, and weigh-in some copper. Either would mean some radical changes.

It sounds really grumpy but by going all electric I also could take a trade out of the equation. Of all the trades who come here I find the gas fitters/servicers the most difficult to love. They are terrifically expensive too. A boiler service seems to be just a vaccuum of the innards and costs £100 a go. New PCB was £300, and so on.

RCD goes pop and costs nothing for us and a replacement element a few pounds.

An old cottage still with two of the original four fireplaces. Some of them round here have back-burners behind the fireplaces which are not used these days. Now that is something I'm going to have a really good look at Fm. Like it. Restore it back, maybe for the same cost as a new gas boiler. Glad I asked. Maybe even all three options and a choice.

Zs
 10 November 2012 03:29 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



normcall

Posts: 8111
Joined: 15 January 2005

OK, let's get practical. although I'm biased and look for 24 heating rather than intermittent - which gas is far better for!!
I've had electric underfloor heating which once the floor had dried out (6mths later,) worked well.
Then we moved to a house that had gas central heating. I was so cold, the experts said the boiler needed replacing as the wall mounted one was too small, the landing creaked like mad (why can't plumbers lift boards and replace then without splitting them?).
I ended up carrying out all the heat loss calculations which proved the boiler was well rated, the pipework too small as were the radiators. I ended up replacing most of the radiators, associated pipework, water tanks, control valves, pump and associated controls. Oh, and the floor lifted and new boards fitted.
System then worked as I wanted, boards didn't creak and we were warm.
Then we moved!!
This place had gas heating, one pipe system and even the hot water tank was on it's side.
We insulated the walls and roof and double glazed the windows. Ripped out the gas (it needed money spending) and installed the Dimplex direct heating system. We were warm, but poor!
Then my dad decided to change from NSHs to gas central heating and asked if I could disconnect and remove the heaters I installed 3 or 4 years before. Like a shot I was there!!
Changed everything here and some 30 years later the dammed things are working like a dream and the only failure was a new one we bought for the bathroom as SWMBO kept complaining that the new ones are off the floor and much better. It lasted 3 years before needing a new element.

Which ever you go for, carry out the heat loss calculations as any system struggling to provide the correct heat will cost £££. Don't believe what others tell you you need unless they can back it up with data.
As I say, for almost continuous heating you will not go far wrong with NSH, for 'normal' usage (7 to 8:30 and 17:00 to 22:00) I would consider a gas wet system with a 'real boiler' - remember to replace you can use a real one, for a new install I believe you have to have an 'instant' boiler which to comply with efficiency data, must run flat out all the time or the efficiency drops like a stone (someone did yet another good lobby on the government for that!!).

-------------------------
Norman
 10 November 2012 03:32 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



normcall

Posts: 8111
Joined: 15 January 2005

Oh, I forgot (you posted while I was slowly composing), the animals just love our open fire!

-------------------------
Norman
 10 November 2012 07:07 PM
User is online View Users Profile Print this message



Fm

Posts: 648
Joined: 24 August 2011

Gas is cheaper to use
If your notrenting it out, and are worried about cost why the yearly test.
My mate services mine for £30 each year.
However i dont get my gas cooker serviced every year?
I dont get the pipe workmserviced?
Gas is more controllable, coupled with a solar input to,pre heat or indeed heat a tank/thermal store, fit a back boiler to a stove and the nice flame to look a is also topping up the temp.

Lots of sites throwing away timber, get collecti and start burning.

Do a course and service your own boiler and offer gas and elec inspections to your customers!!

I would never rip out gas to go all electric.

Gas failure- immersion back up with solar and stove
Electricity failure- stove back up with solar and small sine wave to power boiler.
No gas or elec- use the stove and read the big green book, use it to ight your kindling!!
 10 November 2012 07:13 PM
User is online View Users Profile Print this message



Fm

Posts: 648
Joined: 24 August 2011

Zs. Heating from cold might not bethemost efficient
Thermal mass etc
Spend moneyon insulation, stop air leaks, seal gaps around skirtings etc.
Insulate insulate insulate.
Im just away to rip my old lath andplaster walls down in another bedroom and install 100mm kingspan, ensuring that all gaps are sealed.
Makes a huge difference to the heat requirements to the room.

Ps make sure you,get a boiler that can truly modulate down to the required load.

Ps assume yourmgas is mains and not bottles?
 10 November 2012 08:17 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for sparkyaj.
sparkyaj

Posts: 57
Joined: 04 June 2012

I've just split my combi into an S plan feeding a 210 ltr cylinder in the loft. we use the boiler for 1 hr in the morning and 1 hr at night. It has cut our Gas down by about £600 a year and now we have lots of hot water. if the Boiler dies we can use immersion in tank + will add solar thermal into it soon as well.

Gas and Electric are fine until you get a power cut then neither will work -

Split AC is a cheap way to heat house (whilst you have power) and alot of people dont look into it. Works great in the summer as well for cooling :-)

FYI - Callor Gas is cheapest if you are able to have bulk storage tank - works out cheaper than natural gas - but a lot of trouble to save a few quid.

Wood burners are nice :-)
 10 November 2012 08:20 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for stateit.
stateit

Posts: 2132
Joined: 15 April 2005

You can still get rid of that boiler in the cupboard and make more space:

I was in a house yesterday where the boiler had been moved into the loft, exactly for the space-saving reason.

I see plenty of houses with all-electric heating around me ( in the sticks, few gas mains) and not a single person likes being forced into the situation. Even if you have money to burn, all-electric heating and water loses out to gas.

You MUST surely have found a friendly gas plumber by now... If not then make an effort!

-------------------------
S George
http://www.sg-electrical.com
 10 November 2012 08:29 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



peteTLM

Posts: 3120
Joined: 31 March 2005

Im not a fan of combi boilers. The wear on them is horrific compared with a normal conventional boiler that just ticks away, all for the sake of saving a cupboard. Pipe insulation and effecient radiators is the way to go. Modern boilers are a lot more efficient than older models, just choose a make that has a good rep and is serviceable. Biasi and cheaper bottom of the barrel makes you might as well just throw in the skip, go for potterton, worcester etc. Our Potterton has gone 11 years without a single part going wrong.

Having a ton of sludge in the pipework dosent help either.

As Fm suggests, a friend of mine recently done all there bedrooms with celotex, and its a massive massive difference on a solid brick wall. So much so its on a scale you cant describe.

Norm means a condensing boiler i think, and yes, they have to run flat out to be worth the money, but unfortunatly, you have no choice as they are all you can fit now.

-------------------------
----------------------------------------
Lack of planning on your part doesn't make it an emergency on mine....

Every man has to know his limitations- Dirty Harry
 11 November 2012 12:20 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



DOUGIE1000

Posts: 4159
Joined: 13 August 2005

Zs, I can give best opinion of both worlds, my own house is combi gas, another property we have is 100% electric.

We went to stored electric hot water and all electric hot water wet centeal heating system. The electric boiler is constant stored hot water, great for showers. I compleatly changed boiler controls to suit myself.

Go gas, a small boiler 24he for example is £440 +vat and comes with 2 year garantee and a lot of the slightly more expensive boilers come with a 5yr manufacture garantee now.

Go gas not electric, however a few simple plumbing and you could keep the hot water tank and have it isolated when combi in use and reintstae in the event of combi breakdown along with 3kw immersor.

Dougie

-------------------------
Dougie
Power Plus Electrical.co.uk

My mission is to live as long as possible......so far so good!
 11 November 2012 09:26 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



jj4091

Posts: 56
Joined: 20 July 2007

The new condensing combi boilers have such a high flow rate, that as long as you have the right mains water pressure, you don't have any problem with filling a bath or shower pressure ( unless you like to to be steam clean). Since you use a open solid fuel fire, had you thought about installing a multi-fuel burner & combining the two for your central heating system. I'm not sure how feasible that is but as you already have the tanks I would not have thought it too difficult.
 11 November 2012 10:12 AM
User is online View Users Profile Print this message



Fm

Posts: 648
Joined: 24 August 2011

Originally posted by: sparkyaj

I've just split my combi into an S plan feeding a 210 ltr cylinder in the loft. we use the boiler for 1 hr in the morning and 1 hr at night. It has cut our Gas down by about £600 a year and now we have lots of hot water. if the Boiler dies we can use immersion in tank + will add solar thermal into it soon as well.



Gas and Electric are fine until you get a power cut then neither will work -



Split AC is a cheap way to heat house (whilst you have power) and alot of people dont look into it. Works great in the summer as well for cooling :-)



FYI - Callor Gas is cheapest if you are able to have bulk storage tank - works out cheaper than natural gas - but a lot of trouble to save a few quid.



Wood burners are nice :-)


How c an you safe 600 quid, byconverting a combi?
You heat the water with the same form of energy, and store it?

You arent using solar or wood?
Where does the saving come from?

Agree with having stuff in the loft, if its well insulated and has safe working room to maintain it!
 11 November 2012 02:31 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for potential.
potential

Posts: 1255
Joined: 01 February 2007

Gas and Electric are fine until you get a power cut then neither will work -

One of the chief reasons I installed gas wall heaters with a multipoint water heater was that they all work without electricity.
 11 November 2012 04:06 PM
User is online View Users Profile Print this message



Fm

Posts: 648
Joined: 24 August 2011

Put the boiler on a plug and socket and have a inverter to power the boiler.
Its best that people start preparing for the next series of power cuts in the not to distant future.
 11 November 2012 05:24 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



pnorton

Posts: 402
Joined: 16 September 2005

Before thinking of a power shower, take a look at Gledhill
I have the Torrent thermal store. Unlike a pressurised cylinder (which needs servicing annually) the Torrent is vented and has a small header tank - in my case - immediately above it, which feeds the cylinder only. That water is never used - it is just there to store heat.

The domestic hot water is supplied direct from the mains via a regulator; the water passes through a coil inside the thermal store which enables you to have near mains water pressure.

The thermal store can also accommodate multiple heat inputs; boiler, wood burner, solar etc. each having a separate coil.

Incidentally, a very good friend who happens to be a plumber, now recommends the Intergas boiler for it simplicity and versatility.

Hope that helps

Paul

-------------------------
The body is now decrepit but the mind is still active - just!
 11 November 2012 05:28 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



Zs

Posts: 2789
Joined: 20 July 2006

stage 1 of the tests.

24 hours on gas only without the use of the fireplace (I'm feeling cold). Haven't used the gas hob. 1 tank of freshly heated hot water used, then re heated and maintained hot.

Outdoor temperature 4 degrees to -1 degree to 5 degrees to 2 degrees.

Total of 62 metres squared at an average of 2.5m high.

3.5 units of gas consumed.

I put 1 x 3kW fan heater on just now, feeling warm but consuming the same gas and 2.5kW of electricity. Itching to dip into a sack of building site rubble and light a fire but I'll do this for the next 24 hours on electric only.

The online heat loss calculators are all over the place with different results. The lowest suggests a total of 6579 W and the highest suggests 9674. None of them ask you your preferred ambient temperature.

I'll edit this post as I go. Already thinking enhanced use of solid fuel and a state of the art stove. As you say, we get the fuel off site.

Zs
IET » Wiring and the regulations » Change from gas heating to electric

1 2 3 Next Last unread
Topic Tools Topic Tools
Statistics

See Also:



FuseTalk Standard Edition v3.2 - © 1999-2014 FuseTalk Inc. All rights reserved.