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Topic Title: NEW QS REQUIREMENTS
Topic Summary: REVISED EAS DOCUMENT
Created On: 09 November 2012 10:16 PM
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 09 November 2012 10:16 PM
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John Peckham

Posts: 7253
Joined: 23 April 2005

The EAS requirement was kicked in to the long grass at the beginning of this year. However it is back again and coming in to force next year.

Have a look Text

Note the will be 2 types of QS for domestic and other installation work.


If you were thinking of joining one of the clubs better make it quick!

-------------------------
John Peckham

http://www.astutetechnicalservices.co.uk/
 09 November 2012 10:21 PM
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slittle

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Probably about time they separated the two. It's too late to read the document but can I assume grandfather rights apply John ?


Stu
 09 November 2012 10:28 PM
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John Peckham

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Stu

Yes otherwise you and me would be booted out as we do not have an NVQ3 and replaced with some spotty faced youth who has not started shaving yet, no experience but has an NVQ with the ink not quite dry.


PS nothing concrete on QSs sending out numpties to do the work and/or getting them to I&T. Still as long as the QS has an NVQ3 that's all right?

-------------------------
John Peckham

http://www.astutetechnicalservices.co.uk/
 09 November 2012 10:33 PM
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daveparry1

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Yes otherwise you and me
--------------
Me too John!

Dave.
 09 November 2012 10:37 PM
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slittle

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Thank goodness for that, I'll finish my large glass of vino then and not worry about searching the web for a site that would sell me an NVQ3 on the back of a cornflakes packet

Stu
 09 November 2012 10:37 PM
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paulskyrme

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That would be most of us John TBH, it would bring the schemes to breaking point!!!
 10 November 2012 06:19 AM
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zeeper

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Thank goodness for that, I'll finish my large glass of vino then and not worry about searching the web for a site that would sell me an NVQ3 on the back of a cornflakes packet


will the grand father rights last forever though. Or just until they got enough NVQ3 qualified members to make switch off grand fathers rights.

Although I struggle to understand why you have a problem with doing the nvq3, when your always banging on about people not being competent unless they have a 2391,which is only a short course.
Surely people of your calibre would p**s a NVQ3.
The reason I did mine was to future proof myself, and I,m not a spotty teenager.
I don't think the industry owe's me a living, not anymore anyway. I'm happy to jump through the hoops I think it helps to keep me upto date.
 10 November 2012 04:32 PM
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BrucieBonus

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Thanks for this John. Hopefully I'll have grandmothers rights! (Am I old enough???)

It hear what you say Zeeper, but why should I have to pay out hard earned £ and waste my time showing someone something that I already can do? And wasn't a requirement when I did my qualifications?
 10 November 2012 05:01 PM
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weirdbeard

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Hi all, if theres to be a new nvq3 qualification that will be the minimum qualification level for a new QS, will an existing nvq3 be sufficient or will it be necessary to take the new qualification?

N.B. - Training salespersons need not reply!
 10 November 2012 05:45 PM
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slittle

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The reason I don't see why I should do the NVQ3 Zeeper is that by design it's a vocational qualification designed to evidence skills and experience.

If after 20+ years in the industry, including a proper apprenticeship up through the BTEC levels, JIB grading, Member of the IET doesn't in itself evidence skills and experience to allow a scheme to grant me QS status then I'll take my skills and head off somewhere that appreciates them

I believe the idea for new QS's is sound, it will hopefully bring the skills up towards where they should be for newer and probably younger sparks. However I suspect many of the older (read experienced) QS's on here could run rings around any of them for years to come.


Stu
 10 November 2012 08:50 PM
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zeeper

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Well I'm doing the usual and playing devils advocate so don't bite my head off, but I think its worth a few words.

. However I suspect many of the older (read experienced) QS's on here could run rings around any of them for years to come.


I don't want to comment about who on here I think is a supersparks.

However isn't it down to the current crop of QS's. That the scam operators have been forced into raising the bar.
If the majority of the current QS's had been doing a good job the entry requirements for the scams would not have needed to be changed to improve standards and safety. And to me this is the funny bit, the people to blame for the entry requirements being changed due to their unsafe work get grandfather rights lol. So it will take a long time for stands to increase until the current crop manage to pass the entry requirements.
Once again its all about the money.

What is strange that there is no mention of qualifications that came before NVQ3.
 10 November 2012 09:05 PM
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zeeper

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It hear what you say Zeeper, but why should I have to pay out hard earned £ and waste my time showing someone something that I already can do? And wasn't a requirement when I did my qualifications?


Gas engineers have to retrain every 4 or so years. I would been happy to do that if we got the same sort of money.

Electrical work is not too badly paid, well a bit better that Tesco or B&Q.
Just look at how quickly the rules can change if they desire.
My point is as long as it suits for them to allow grandfathers they will. I don't think you can ever guarantee that this will always be the case.
The scam providers loyalty is to your cheque book, not you.
I think if you got less than ten years to retirement don't worry about it, but for the rest of us I think we need to protect our earning potential by ensuring we have current and relevant qualifications for the industry we work in.
It doesn't owe us a living, no free lunch.
 10 November 2012 09:31 PM
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kj scott

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Gas engineers have to retrain every 4 or so years. I would been happy to do that if we got the same sort of money.

Gas installers are reassessed every 4-5 years, they only retrain if they feel unable to pass the assessment without help.

Electrical work is not too badly paid, well a bit better that Tesco or B&Q.

Aldi paybetter.

Just look at how quickly the rules can change if they desire.

Don't see much moving quickly, this has been discussed for years.

My point is as long as it suits for them to allow grandfathers they will. I don't think you can ever guarantee that this will always be the case.


As long as the Grandfathers are in the majority, then nothing will change; so that should be about 20 years.

The scam providers loyalty is to your cheque book, not you.

Agreed.


I think if you got less than ten years to retirement don't worry about it, but for the rest of us I think we need to protect our earning potential by ensuring we have current and relevant qualifications for the industry we work in.


Are earlier qualifications less relevant than those invented later?

It doesn't owe us a living, no free lunch.

-------------------------
http://www.niceic.biz
 10 November 2012 09:43 PM
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kj scott

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Originally posted by: zeeper

Although I struggle to understand why you have a problem with doing the nvq3, when your always banging on about people not being competent unless they have a 2391,which is only a short course. q]


Personally I have a number of issues;

First who is going to perform the NVQ assessment? I will most likely be better qualified and more experienced than the assessor.

Second I already hold and NVQ level 4 (QCF 4) and QCF level 6

Third I already have a proven record of competence, given by the registration body JTL/JIB.

Fouth I have been a registered QS with a scheme for 7 years.

Fifth I spent over seven years assessing QS competence.

NVQ3 is fine for new applicants, recently qualified operatives, but can never be retrospective.

-------------------------
http://www.niceic.biz

Edited: 10 November 2012 at 09:55 PM by kj scott
 11 November 2012 08:14 PM
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Jobbo

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Could this be an attempt to rush people into joining up quickly before the change?

I see even the ECS have updated there website to make things clearer regarding the NVQ3

http://www.ecscard.org.uk/inst...cian_eligibility.aspx

I would advise anyone who has an ECS card to add there QS status to it.

Regards

Jobbo
 11 November 2012 09:14 PM
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jcm256

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With the JIB qualified supervisors card; you have to hand it back if you leave a club.
(Approved electrician, if you become a lone ranger you keep it) is it not the same level 3?
Contracts managers need level five.

Qualified supervisor
The ECS has agreed with both the ECA and the National Inspection Council for Electrical Installation Contracting (NICEIC) a method of identifying "Qualified Supervisors" on ECS cards. To obtain the Qualified Supervisor endorsement the cardholder must be employed by an organisation which is certificated to the Electrotechnical Assessment Scheme (EAS) or enrolled on the NICEIC Approved Contractors Scheme and recorded as a Qualified Supervisor within the terms of certification or enrolment. An example of the card can be seen later in this document.

The endorsement will identify the cardholder's employer and will also include a logo identifying which scheme has enrolled the Qualified Supervisor. The endorsement is only valid while the card holder is employed by the organisation shown on the card. The card will need to be returned for replacement if the holder changes employer.


Managers
These distinctive cards can be obtained upon application by Site Managers who can show competence at NVQ/SVQ level 4 and by Contracts Managers who can show competence at NVQ/SVQ level 5.


http://www.jib.org.uk/handbook...Qualified%20supervisor
 11 November 2012 11:00 PM
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peteTLM

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Originally posted by: jcm256

Managers

These distinctive cards can be obtained upon application by Site Managers who can show competence at NVQ/SVQ level 4 and by Contracts Managers who can show competence at NVQ/SVQ level 5.





http://www.jib.org.uk/handbook...Qualified%20supervisor


The city and guilds portfolio isnt exactly bursting with electrotech nvq's at level 4. What one exactly do they have in mind??

-------------------------
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Lack of planning on your part doesn't make it an emergency on mine....

Every man has to know his limitations- Dirty Harry
 12 November 2012 09:56 AM
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zeeper

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Second I already hold and NVQ level 4 (QCF 4) and QCF level 6


I am not commenting on your personal situation.

As we have seen in the passed the schemes and scams dont reconise qualifications that are not relevant to the electrical installation industry. If you what to be reconised as competent in design,installation and commissioning of electrical systems its no good having a level 6 or degree in electronics or hnd in electrical engineering. These are not electrical installation qualifications. They can been gained with out even picking up a screw driver. I understand that the above people have a good grasp of electrical theory but not at the lower level of installation. I work sometimes with a project engineer who is very knowledgeable and has a hnd in electrical engineering. But he has very limited knowledge of the BS7671, none of building regs, and has never worked as a jobbing spark.

My point is qualifications need to be relevant to what your doing. It is difficuit to prove experience. everybody lies.

Edited: 12 November 2012 at 10:02 AM by zeeper
 12 November 2012 03:48 PM
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Parsley

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Originally posted by: peteTLM

Originally posted by: jcm256



Managers



These distinctive cards can be obtained upon application by Site Managers who can show competence at NVQ/SVQ level 4 and by Contracts Managers who can show competence at NVQ/SVQ level 5.











http://www.jib.org.uk/handbook...Qualified%20supervisor




The city and guilds portfolio isnt exactly bursting with electrotech nvq's at level 4. What one exactly do they have in mind??


http://www.learningassistant.c...nd-project-management

I've had a contracts managers card since 2008 and I haven't got a NVQ level 5. Other routes were available then and they probably still are.

Regards
 12 November 2012 06:44 PM
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jcm256

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From the autumn 2012wiring matters

"><br ">http://.....=en...008&bih=567



[PDF]
What is an electrician? - IET Electrical

Short 'Part P' training
programmes are only for individuals
who have been working within the
industry for at least two years and wish to
be registered as a Qualified Supervisor
for their company. These courses do not
qualify individuals as electricians.

I say bring back the Electrical trades union (white card Apprentice section) (blue card Skilled section). This worked. No skilled card, no work as an electrician either industrial or domestic, this forced electrical companies to take on apprentices coupled with educational day release , to provide turnover as electricians left moved on after serving their time.

So many titles so little meaning, so many courses. is no one out there without a vested interest to take a critical look at the present setup.
IET » Wiring and the regulations » NEW QS REQUIREMENTS

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