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Topic Title: Emergency lighting installation
Topic Summary: Looking for solution to a plonker
Created On: 04 November 2012 03:36 PM
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 14 November 2012 08:07 PM
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Zs

Posts: 2856
Joined: 20 July 2006

Thank you for your help on this, I have been back today.

The list of remedial work, relating to EL. has 17 items on it and is a huge improvement. Most of those are ELs connected into the wrong circuit and lack of running-man signage but I tested 45 circuits today, from the test switch and from the breaker. The independent DBs for emergency lighting have been taken out and the ELs re routed. No borrowed neutrals.

I have a question for you;

For a self contained EL unit, what kind of cable would you select in terms of fire rating? I'll reveal my views on this once I have some of yours. Some of you know my views already so I won't blag it.

Pete TLM... Mr E Currant is still resident in that big panel board. The owner is buying me lunch next week (which I don't want to waste the time on really. Word-up is that he is going to make me the second job offer in 10 days), But I've never had a one-to-one with him for more than a few minutes and it is appropriate now. So I'll highlight that section of my original report and show it to him.

But great leaps have been made, firm letters have been hand delivered, multiple thousands have been spent, and it looks as though they are finally committed to getting it right.

Zs

Edit: If this has just come to the top, nothing sinister, just edited a spelling so that this thread doesn't pop up on google too easily. It is nice to be able to discuss issues with you outside of the meeting room.

It wasn't lunch, it was a cup of tea and a beano down the trousers kind of meeting. How life is changing.

Edited: 22 November 2012 at 12:21 PM by Zs
 14 November 2012 09:24 PM
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impvan

Posts: 755
Joined: 07 September 2005

Self-contained EL? Any old cable!
 14 November 2012 09:47 PM
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leckie

Posts: 1794
Joined: 21 November 2008

I would say near as possible to the wiring supplying the general lighting of the local circuit, providing that wiring was compliant
 14 November 2012 10:00 PM
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paulskyrme

Posts: 769
Joined: 12 February 2003

It has to be comparable or rated "lower" than that of the general lighting circuit, else it could survive longer than this and could result in the EM lighting not illuminating upon failure of the general lighting, depending where the "fire" event occurs within the circuit wiring layout as it were.
 15 November 2012 12:13 AM
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John Peckham

Posts: 7405
Joined: 23 April 2005

LSFZH if run in an escape route or required by some regulating body such The London Building Acts local rules.

I would think the building you speak of would require LSF cables in all areas.

-------------------------
John Peckham

http://www.astutetechnicalservices.co.uk/
 15 November 2012 10:49 AM
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OMS

Posts: 19597
Joined: 23 March 2004

I have a question for you;

For a self contained EL unit, what kind of cable would you select in terms of fire rating? I'll reveal my views on this once I have some of yours. Some of you know my views already so I won't blag it.


What it should not be is a fire rated cable generally - usually it will be of a similar type and grade to the existing - and as John points out probably LSF if being installed now (although that may also require a view on what containment or support is used)

Most of those are ELs connected into the wrong circuit and lack of running-man signage but I tested 45 circuits today, from the test switch and from the breaker.


Presumably then, you still have a lot of non maintained lighting present where generally it should be maintained - the circuit it connects to is then academic - any supply will do. If self contained and maintained then the cable type may be fire rated depending on the supply source capability and if you want standby lighting as well as escape lighting capability.

Regards

OMS

-------------------------
Failure is always an option
 15 November 2012 10:33 PM
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Zs

Posts: 2856
Joined: 20 July 2006

Thank you, you have confirmed my views on the subject of the cable not being more fire resistant than the normal lighting cable. Give or take certain specials of course.

So, bell wire it is then.

No OMS, the M v NM is actually ok there. I specified a few to be changed, some extras at each end of corridor 'compartments' for example, and one over a first aid point, another extra on a staircase, one nearer to a fire extinguisher, but nothing shocking. I just found a few ELs which were connected into a circuit serving the normal lights in a neighbouring room. I don't mind too many ELs coming on in the event of failure of a local circuit but I do mind a room being plunged into darkness. My enquiry about cable is relative to what they have used in there and why. I'll not go into all that in public though, until it is all done. Vast improvement.

Zs
 16 November 2012 11:09 AM
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OMS

Posts: 19597
Joined: 23 March 2004

Thank you, you have confirmed my views on the subject of the cable not being more fire resistant than the normal lighting cable. Give or take certain specials of course.


Well, the best you can deduce from the code of practice is that for self contained systems:

Self-contained emergency luminaires do not require fire-protected cable supplies. They should be installed to the same standard as normal luminaires, and both should be part of the periodic inspection and testing of the electrical installation at intervals appropriate to the type of building in question.

So, bell wire it is then.


LoL - see 8.1 of BS 5266 - 1:2011 above.

I just found a few ELs which were connected into a circuit serving the normal lights in a neighbouring room. I don't mind too many ELs coming on in the event of failure of a local circuit but I do mind a room being plunged into darkness.


OK - as long as they come on with the correct local circuit failure - no point in having NM's in a Means of Escape(MoE) if they are actually supplied via a circuit that doesn't serve that MoE - and of course you need a minim,um of two in the compartment (borrowed light through vision panels notwithstanding). Rooms in darkness isn't a major issue - it depends on the room and the occupants. It's quite possible to bring on NM luminaires on a zonal basis, such that a failure of any circuit in the zone will also bring on every NM luminaire in that zone regardless if it has a health charging supply - it is often deployed with cental testing and reporting capability. You'll have seen something similar in your other job I suspect.

regards

OMS

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Failure is always an option
IET » Wiring and the regulations » Emergency lighting installation

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