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Topic Title: Part P Review (Conclusion)
Topic Summary: Another one for R&R
Created On: 31 October 2012 12:43 PM
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 07 November 2012 10:27 PM
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sparkingchip

Posts: 6289
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If you have a idle minute Google loft insulation and deaths from electrocution in Australia, they use a lot of metal foil as part of their roof insulation and staple it into place.

Andy
 17 November 2012 11:47 PM
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whjohnson

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I wouldn't worry too much about whatever the eventual outcome is.
It is the installation owner's responsibility to notify so I just do the work, issue the cert and leave it up to them.

There you go - it couldn't be simpler could it? No need for scam membership, and the cost of notifying falls with the householder - if they can be bothered to notify of course, and that is a decision which isn't up to me in any case.

-------------------------
Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
 18 November 2012 04:46 PM
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zeeper

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There you go - it couldn't be simpler could it? No need for scam membership, and the cost of notifying falls with the householder - if they can be bothered to notify of course, and that is a decision which isn't up to me in any case.


I thought the work had to be register before hand ,if your not a scam member.
 18 November 2012 10:04 PM
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alancapon

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Originally posted by: zeeper
There you go - it couldn't be simpler could it? No need for scam membership, and the cost of notifying falls with the householder - if they can be bothered to notify of course, and that is a decision which isn't up to me in any case.

I thought the work had to be register before hand ,if your not a scam member.

That is my understanding too. If the job is not registered beforehand and the electrician is not a member of an approved competent person's scheme, then the Building Regulations have not been complied with and the works undertaken are illegal.

Regards,

Alan.
 18 November 2012 11:11 PM
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rocknroll

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illegal.

Not quite illegal but more of a technical offence, LA's do not prosecute the householder who has not notified where they have used a contractor, they issue a notice for the fee, the same goes for non-compliant work they issue a notice for the work to be brought up to the required standard.

For years now issues regarding building work has been sorted out proactively on the ground without the need for threats of court action or heavy fines etc;

Remember the greater the regulation, the greater the anarchy!!!

regards

-------------------------
"Take nothing but a picture,
leave nothing but footprints!"
-------------------------
"Oh! The drama of it all."
-------------------------
"You can throw all the philosophy you like at the problem, but at the end of the day it's just basic electrical theory!"
-------------------------

Edited: 19 November 2012 at 01:08 AM by rocknroll
 19 November 2012 06:39 AM
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normcall

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Just do wot I do.
Provide client with LABC notifying form with covering letter saying that the work required comes within the remit of the building regulations. I have a returnable 'tear off' slip to notify me when the fee was sent to LABC.
Problem solved.

-------------------------
Norman
 19 November 2012 08:42 AM
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zeeper

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There you go - it couldn't be simpler could it? No need for scam membership, and the cost of notifying falls with the householder - if they can be bothered to notify of course, and that is a decision which isn't up to me in any case.

I thought the work had to be register before hand ,if your not a scam member.

That is my understanding too. If the job is not registered beforehand and the electrician is not a member of an approved competent person's scheme, then the Building Regulations have not been complied with and the works undertaken are illegal.



For years now issues regarding building work has been sorted out proactively on the ground without the need for threats of court action or heavy fines etc;


So the aforementioned electrical person can carry on working without any worries , sweet.

what a system top notch.

And to think I thought it was just a tax opportunity by big brother.
 19 November 2012 09:00 AM
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rocknroll

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So the aforementioned electrical person can carry on working without any worries , sweet.


Well why should the electrician be penalised or stopped from working when the responsibility for notification lies with the customer, as I pointed out most do the job safely and well serving the needs of their customer and are not doing anything illegal.

The trouble is too many of you and under the impression that because you belong to one of the troubled schemes it gives you the god given right to work above others, membership of the above mentioned is just a simple business decision and you compete like everybody else in the market place.

At the end of the day most people dont just not notify because there is anything dodgy going on but it is a question of expense, the same goes for electricians who chose not the register, if you are registered you are probably outnumbered by around 4 to 1 these days so your registration gives you a good marketing opportunity, by telling your and their customers you can save them the cost of notification fees could help you secure more work, simples.

regards

-------------------------
"Take nothing but a picture,
leave nothing but footprints!"
-------------------------
"Oh! The drama of it all."
-------------------------
"You can throw all the philosophy you like at the problem, but at the end of the day it's just basic electrical theory!"
-------------------------

Edited: 19 November 2012 at 01:15 PM by rocknroll
 19 November 2012 01:15 PM
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alancapon

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So the aforementioned electrical person can carry on working without any worries , sweet.

Well why should the electrician be penalised or stopped from working when the responsibility for notification lies with the customer, as I pointed out most do the job safely and well serving the needs of their customer and are not doing anything illegal.

This (in my opinion) is the reason why "Part P" of the Building Regulations will never work any better than it does now in the UK. If you build an extension to your house without complying with Building Regulations, then I am sure the LABC will have something to say and take action. If you rewire the house without complying with Part P, it would seem they are not particularly bothered.

All work that should comply with Building Regulations needs to be treated the same, or the parts that are ignored without enforcement taking place should be scrapped.

Regards,

Alan.
 19 November 2012 01:28 PM
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OMS

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Remember the greater the regulation, the greater the anarchy!!!


Hurrah - to the barricades, mon comrade -

One thing to think of perhaps, Alan - Building Regulations have three main purposes:

1. To ensure the health and safety of people in and around buildings.
2. The conservation of energy.
3. Access and facilities for disabled people.

Clearly all works will not be treated the same - a structurally flawed or non fire engineered building almost certainly has greater potential risk than a non notified domestic rewire - BCO's are sinplt acting in accordance wirg a sensible heirarchy of risk management.

Although it could be argued that they know lots about buildings and bugger all about electrics

One or other of the above is bound to be the correct answer

Regards

OMS

-------------------------
Failure is always an option
 19 November 2012 01:29 PM
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rocknroll

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Well it still comes down to the question why should the contractor be penalised or stopped from working when it is the responsibility of the owner to ensure that notification takes place, the only requirement for the contractor is to comply with Regulation 7 of the Building Regulations which in my opinion 99.9% of them do without too much problem.

If your talking about enforcement against the owner for not taking their responsibility seriously by notifying well that is a different issue and subjective.

regards

-------------------------
"Take nothing but a picture,
leave nothing but footprints!"
-------------------------
"Oh! The drama of it all."
-------------------------
"You can throw all the philosophy you like at the problem, but at the end of the day it's just basic electrical theory!"
-------------------------
 19 November 2012 01:47 PM
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alancapon

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Although it could be argued that they know lots about buildings and bugger all about electrics . . .

That made me laugh!

Regards,

Alan.
 19 November 2012 02:15 PM
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OMS

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What, what - it's all true I tell you

OMS

-------------------------
Failure is always an option
 27 November 2012 12:36 PM
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Pactrol

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Originally posted by: rslane

or is it that the dodgy wires and junction boxes don't like being covered by all the extra insulation that is now blanketing so many people's lofts


Yes good point as Bs7671 goes into great detail about the de rating of cables buried in insulation it does seem
strange that the lbc & other outfits all be it with good intentions can just go round burying the wiring in existing intallations with absolutely so regard to the effect this may have on the wiring. it don.t even need inspecting by a building inspector.
strange don.t you think ?
 06 December 2012 05:00 PM
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jcm256

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All fed up with this although heavy going some interesting facts.

Building regulations review

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/8387/2076727.pdf

Part P Consultation telephone Contacts: what did some say x all.


https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/8386/2063566.pdf
 06 December 2012 07:18 PM
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John Peckham

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Without enforcement you don't get compliance which is true in the case of Part P. Unfortunately the registered guys have to compete on price against the non-registered people who don't have the cost burdens of registration let alone the cowboys who will always be cheaper.

Mind you using a registered person does not guarantee that a competent person will turn up on the door step to do the job which I am sure is a reasonable expectation for the customer. I bet no one told the the select committee that is the case?

I attend courts both civil and criminal and in every case I have been to court the defendant has been a registered person. I have 2 cases in the pipeline both registered persons.

-------------------------
John Peckham

http://www.astutetechnicalservices.co.uk/
 06 December 2012 08:04 PM
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SAMJAKE

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Originally posted by: John Peckham

Without enforcement you don't get compliance which is true in the case of Part P. Unfortunately the registered guys have to compete on price against the non-registered people who don't have the cost burdens of registration let alone the cowboys who will always be cheaper.



Mind you using a registered person does not guarantee that a competent person will turn up on the door step to do the job which I am sure is a reasonable expectation for the customer. I bet no one told the the select committee that is the case?



I attend courts both civil and criminal and in every case I have been to court the defendant has been a registered person. I have 2 cases in the pipeline both registered persons.


Well that does not surprise me one iota.
There is a van at the top of my street, a ceramic wall tiler, but also a Elecsa sticker on the side as well. God help us. Document P of the building regulations hijacked by money making scams.
 07 December 2012 11:14 PM
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napitprofessional

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Originally posted by: John Peckham

Without enforcement you don't get compliance which is true in the case of Part P. Unfortunately the registered guys have to compete on price against the non-registered people who don't have the cost burdens of registration let alone the cowboys who will always be cheaper.



Mind you using a registered person does not guarantee that a competent person will turn up on the door step to do the job which I am sure is a reasonable expectation for the customer. I bet no one told the the select committee that is the case?



I attend courts both civil and criminal and in every case I have been to court the defendant has been a registered person. I have 2 cases in the pipeline both registered persons.


Careful John, the industry cartel will be unleashing the dogs of war ....

-------------------------
B. Eng (Hons) MIET
IET » Wiring and the regulations » Part P Review (Conclusion)

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