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Topic Title: German Electric Heating Systems
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Created On: 06 October 2012 07:20 PM
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 06 October 2012 07:20 PM
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sparkiemike

Posts: 1549
Joined: 24 January 2008

Has anybody come across these guys before.

http://www.eltiheating.com/

I have a customer who is interested in them. They appear to be making a lot of bold claims about very low running costs, but not much technical data.
 06 October 2012 07:37 PM
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Pacific

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Laws of physics apply, a 2kW heater is just that
 06 October 2012 07:58 PM
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impvan

Posts: 788
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Shampoo science. No better than a 40 quid panel heater.

If a room loses 500Wh through the walls/floor etc, then it needs 500Wh to keep it warm. It doesn't matter how you generate that 500W; you could burn dung on the hearth rug or develop your own nuclear reactor to sit behind the telly; you still need 500W.

Now, all direct electric heating is 100% efficient, so it doesn't matter one jot what kind of heater you have - it takes 500W from the mains and delivers 500W to the room. Can't lose any, can't gain any.

The only way these expensive panel heaters (eg Rointe and their clones) score is that they convect very well, helping to reduce the stratification between the ceiling and where you're sat. An 8 quid chinese desk fan hidden away somewhere will do the same thing.

The best form of heating is keeping the heat you've already got. So take the extra cost of german panel heaters and put it towards insulation! For the cost of one of these over-hyped machines you could have your room's ceiling overboarded with insulated Fermacell and use a cheap panel heater instead. The added insulation will save money year-on-year, AND you'll have got rid of those cracks in the ceiling....
 07 October 2012 12:42 AM
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potential

Posts: 1276
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Originally posted by: impvan

Shampoo science. No better than a 40 quid panel heater.
If a room loses 500Wh through the walls/floor etc, then it needs 500Wh to keep it warm. It doesn't matter how you generate that 500W; you could burn dung on the hearth rug or develop your own nuclear reactor to sit behind the telly; you still need 500W.
Now, all direct electric heating is 100% efficient, so it doesn't matter one jot what kind of heater you have - it takes 500W from the mains and delivers 500W to the room. Can't lose any, can't gain any.
The only way these expensive panel heaters (eg Rointe and their clones) score is that they convect very well, helping to reduce the stratification between the ceiling and where you're sat. An 8 quid chinese desk fan hidden away somewhere will do the same thing.
The best form of heating is keeping the heat you've already got. So take the extra cost of german panel heaters and put it towards insulation! For the cost of one of these over-hyped machines you could have your room's ceiling overboarded with insulated Fermacell and use a cheap panel heater instead. The added insulation will save money year-on-year, AND you'll have got rid of those cracks in the ceiling....


I think that is good advice.
 07 October 2012 02:26 PM
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sparkiemike

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Thanks

Apparently they are coming to do a survey next week. I convinced it just an opportunity to get their foot in the door. The customer seems to be sold on the idea already.

It's a badly insulated farm cottage, I have already advised them to get the insulation done - it will be interesting if the surveyor gives the same advice.

As there is no electric heating at the moment I wonder if they will make an assessment of the load and advise the DNO of the increased load.

Will let you know of the outcome.
 07 October 2012 06:19 PM
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weirdbeard

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Originally posted by: sparkiemike



It's a badly insulated farm cottage, I have already advised them to get the insulation done - it will be interesting if the surveyor gives the same advice.
.



To be fair to them they do say at the end of the linked page above:

"thanks for reading, enjoy the rest of the web-site and remember if you do nothing else in your home, Insulate, INSULATE, INSULATE. "
 08 October 2012 10:56 AM
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jcm256

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Is that the same as the Rointe Digital system, the ones with the mock up installation in city electrical factors? Looked at, picked up a brochure, asked price of radiator, and tank, shocked. However 60% saving. The problem is if not being a new building, is replacing the existing wet radiator system and install new wiring could anyone afford to take that chance to find out if it is cheaper way to heat your home.
On second thoughts, the Spanish need the money more than the Germans now.

http://www.rointe.co.uk/news.html
 08 October 2012 11:20 AM
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normcall

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A couple of years ago (OK, nearer 40), Dimplex had a system known as 'tri-plan heating'.
It really comprised of insulating the roof space, insulating the cavity walls (why did the enquires I got always no have cavities?), a duel zone timer control and convector heaters. Sound familiar? Zarvik in St Albans also did a similar system.

To be fair, for those who where out all day, they were cheaper to install and, at that time, not too expensive to run. The electricity prices rocketed compared with gas etc. Now, it's going the other way.

Like most things I sell, I tried out out on my testing home (handy as I live there!), but our life style needed 24 hour heating 7 days a week, so it was all ripped out and storage heaters installed. Problem solved.

Just remember that many of these systems originate where electricity is obtained by hooking onto the nearest overhead line and average temperatures higher anyway. look on the bright side, threatened global warming should resolve most of the heating problems.

-------------------------
Norman
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