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Topic Title: Possible legal battle - Electrician V Customer - Your unbiased Opinions please?
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Created On: 30 September 2012 05:10 PM
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 07 October 2012 06:47 PM
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weirdbeard

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Originally posted by: potential


Fine, admit defeat.

But who is to say that is the end of it?

The type of customer that wants to argue the toss is just as likely to sue for damages and costs too.

A major aspect of their case would be that the money was handed back so admitting liability to their previous claims

They'd have a point too.

After all, why hand the money back if you are in the right?

Sometimes the easy way out leads into further problems.


Send me a cheque for a hundred quid and I'll spend an hour composing you an experienced expert waffly reply
 07 October 2012 07:37 PM
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rocknroll

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Good lord, this thread is a 'RUM ONE' isnt it.

regards

-------------------------
"Take nothing but a picture,
leave nothing but footprints!"
-------------------------
"Oh! The drama of it all."
-------------------------
"You can throw all the philosophy you like at the problem, but at the end of the day it's just basic electrical theory!"
-------------------------
 07 October 2012 07:48 PM
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weirdbeard

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Originally posted by: rocknroll

Good lord, this thread is a 'RUM ONE' isnt it.



regards


Welcome back after your trip, hopefully your voyage was not of a similar nature!
 07 October 2012 08:01 PM
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Rum1

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Originally posted by: weirdbeard

Originally posted by: Rum1









Was going to install some Saxby cast steel fire rated downlighters (230V). (Class 1). Many it seems are class 1 and require earths.







Hi rum1, I've just had a look at the saxby site and it does say in the spec for their cast fire rated downlights that they are class 2.



Sorry but if I may be brutally honest my unbiased opinion is that you would be much better off forgetting about this negative issue, move on and apply your time that you might otherwise spend dwelling on this more constructively, such as print off a few 1/2 page A4 flyers, get a pocket full of business cards and then spend a couple of hours in your local area, don't just post the flyers but knock on doors, if anyones in simply introduce yourself and ask if they would mind you leaving a flyer and card with them - advertising with the personal touch - you never know what might turn up, just a couple of small bits and bobs will cover the £100 and you'll get a bit of fresh air and exercise rather than sitting worrying for hours about things such as courts etc.




Called Saxby last week and the chap i spoke to said that on his spec sheet the lights say class 2 - ok fine i thought - only for them to scroll down further and say ...er actually if states here that they are class 1.....
Confusing or what? Said i need to contact the tech team who are only available by email....
Decided not to risk installation especially as the fittings have an earth connector on them with an earth lead down to the "can" part of the fire-rated fitting too!


As for the main issue at hand....it is a very negative issue that is taking up too much of my time already...very true...
 07 October 2012 08:04 PM
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Rum1

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Originally posted by: rocknroll

Good lord, this thread is a 'RUM ONE' isnt it.



regards




haha ...very good rockn roll!!!

But been serious for a second......i really have appreciated all the views, comments and supportive feedback to date....cheers all!
 07 October 2012 08:20 PM
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Rum1

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Originally posted by: potential

Originally posted by: weirdbeard





Sorry but if I may be brutally honest my unbiased opinion is that you would be much better off forgetting about this negative issue, move on and apply your time that you might otherwise spend dwelling on this more constructively, such as print off a few 1/2 page A4 flyers, get a pocket full of business cards and then spend a couple of hours in your local area, don't just post the flyers but knock on doors, if anyones in simply introduce yourself and ask if they would mind you leaving a flyer and card with them - advertising with the personal touch - you never know what might turn up, just a couple of small bits and bobs will cover the £100 and you'll get a bit of fresh air and exercise rather than sitting worrying for hours about things such as courts etc.




Fine, admit defeat.

But who is to say that is the end of it?

The type of customer that wants to argue the toss is just as likely to sue for damages and costs too.

A major aspect of their case would be that the money was handed back so admitting liability to their previous claims

They'd have a point too.

After all, why hand the money back if you are in the right?

Sometimes the easy way out leads into further problems.



I'll be honest i'm in two minds at the minute....just send them their bloody money back...or battle on to the bitter end...
If i did just decide stuff it ...heres your money back...i would also send a letter saying i dispute all the claims & allegations etc and would also attach an invoice. I would log it in my accounts as an unpaid invoice. I would also say something along the lines of " you have indicated that i am withholding your money illegally so i have returned it to you as requested as a gesture of goodwill and would now however hope you will pay your invoice by your own free will" etc etc
...something like that anyway. I'm sure they'd pay me nothing...but i'd never admit to been in the wrong...just turn the tables
 07 October 2012 08:31 PM
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weirdbeard

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Originally posted by: Rum1

...i would also send a letter saying i dispute all the claims & allegations etc


Theres another hour or three up the swanee - make a clean break, no need to justify your actions, as I said before, think of it as their loss and get on with life!
 07 October 2012 10:53 PM
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rocknroll

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Originally posted by: weirdbeard

Originally posted by: rocknroll

Good lord, this thread is a 'RUM ONE' isnt it.

regards


Welcome back after your trip, hopefully your voyage was not of a similar nature!



Thankyou for your kind words and I will have to admit that I went to hell and back a few times in the middle of the Alantic Ocean but all I can say is Davy Jones gave it his best shot and I survived.

Whether you are being thrown around the boat or being washed into the sea by the enormous power, skimming along on a millpond with the sun out enjoying a bacon sandwich and coffee watching mammals going about their business or even viewing the fantastic skies at night with all their colours and the odd comet tracking across the sky you start to think what a fantastic planet we live on with all its diversity and beauty then really start wondering if we are going to f**k this it all up.

regards

-------------------------
"Take nothing but a picture,
leave nothing but footprints!"
-------------------------
"Oh! The drama of it all."
-------------------------
"You can throw all the philosophy you like at the problem, but at the end of the day it's just basic electrical theory!"
-------------------------
 07 October 2012 11:34 PM
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sparkingchip

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As I have said before, I have JCC downlights in my kitchen all of them matching, some are double insulated class II and some are class I with a earth fly lead, I think it depends on which way the wind is blowing in China as to how they are made up, labelled and sold.

To be honest I would have sourced some double insulated light fittings, explained the issues to the client and told them they would have to have the double insulated class II fittings.

However I got into trouble with our moderators several years ago on this subject, so I'll say no more.

Andy
 08 October 2012 06:28 PM
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OldSparky

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ignore them and move on .. they wont take you to court for £100.00 and if they do and you dont feel like the fight pay them on the steps..


personally i am a man of principles, i know they can cost you money but what will we have if they we dont have them..
 08 October 2012 07:16 PM
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OMS

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personally i am a man of principles, i know they can cost you money but what will we have if they we dont have them..


Well, we'd all be consultants -

regards

OMS

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Failure is always an option
 08 October 2012 09:08 PM
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potential

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I wouldn't be afraid of going to the small claims court.
It is relatively informal and if you have a good case (and from what you say, you have) you have very little to loose.
As long as you act reasonably and can argue your own case it should go well.
 09 October 2012 09:36 AM
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AJJewsbury

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All over 6" of land. Yeah right.

The trouble is if you let them get away with 6" this year, the gate's open to try for another 6" next year and the year after that. In the long term if you want to keep anything you'll have to fight at some point. If you do it right, there's a better chance you'd only have to do it once.
- Andy.
 09 October 2012 11:19 AM
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OMS

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you start to think what a fantastic planet we live on with all its diversity and beauty then really start wondering if we are going to f**k this it all up.


Depends on your view I guess funkmeister - we might just f**k it all up from the viewpoint of the naked ape - but if we do, it'll be uncomfortable for us for a while and when we've gone it'll carry on OK for a long time after - it'll just be a bit different.

Welcome back

regards

OMS

-------------------------
Failure is always an option
 09 October 2012 11:57 AM
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MPVaughan

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My beloved Britain....What has become of you! You sound like one seriously ****ed up place now.

OP, i feel for you mate. Keep doing what is right and you will be rewarded. Im a great believer in what goes around comes around.
 09 October 2012 12:36 PM
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impvan

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Rum, you've twice mentioned the NIC. I take it you're a member, so get them involved; get them to do something in return for your subs!
 09 October 2012 05:30 PM
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Paradigm

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Originally posted by: AJJewsbury


The trouble is if you let them get away with 6" this year, the gate's open to try for another 6" next year and the year after that. In the long term if you want to keep anything you'll have to fight at some point. If you do it right, there's a better chance you'd only have to do it once.

- Andy.


Don't know about that Andy, they would be hard pushed to increase the claim over where the boundary is once this one had been settled. I would let them have the six inches (that sounds rude) on the stipulation that no further claims could ever be put forward, a bit like a final settlement. It becomes even more ridiculous when you realise how big these gardens are.

YMMV though

Nick

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"be careful of what you write"
 09 October 2012 05:38 PM
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AJJewsbury

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I would let them have the six inches (that sounds rude) on the stipulation that no further claims could ever be put forward

I doubt any solicitor would advise accepting that - it would give the 1st party carte blanche to move the fences any amount back the other way! Bodges rarely work in the long term.
- Andy.
 09 October 2012 05:47 PM
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Paradigm

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Well that's solicitors for you, they are going to do well out of any dispute aren't they?

Nick

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"be careful of what you write"
 09 October 2012 06:15 PM
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Rum1

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Originally posted by: impvan

Rum, you've twice mentioned the NIC. I take it you're a member, so get them involved; get them to do something in return for your subs!


Hi yes i'm in the NICEIC as an approved member although 95% of my work is Domestic.

Ironically i did make a few phone calls today to them.

I spoke to complaints dept who said they are not concerned as they are not interested in complaints unless it involves a safety issue. I.E. They are not interested in Contactual or Financial issues.

The NICEIC also have a Free legal advice line which i contacted. They said i can only be held accountable if i have been unfair charging (Financial issue), have broken contracts agreed (Contractual) or have been negligent - not worked in a professional/skillful manner. They were of the opinion that i haven't been unreasonable from what i've told them - but ultimately it comes down to word against word and who the judge believes. They given advice on a letter to respond with...

I was also told by the NICEIC tech dept that apparently any "Expert witness" they bring forward would have to be a Chartered Engineer? - not another electrician - Not sure how true that is?? But interesting if true.

The legal advices said it would be a good idea to get a "expert witness" of my own if it ever came to court and ask for costs in my favor - assuming i won!
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