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Topic Title: do you ever think its time to give up and let the little barstewards win
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Created On: 26 August 2012 11:17 AM
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 26 August 2012 11:17 AM
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Dave69

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a couple of months ago, as some of you know, i had my van stolen, it was found totally burnt out and minus all the tools, test gear, etc.

This thursday I was working in Croydon on a job for thames water, by 7;30 in the evening I had had enough so I booked into a hotel for the night knowing i had a couple of hours work in the morning and then I would be on the road back to suffolk.

I paid for the hotel in cash refusing to give them my card details, had a shower and then wondered off to explore the wonders of Croydon. I found a bank and used my card in the hole in the wall to take a couple of hundred pounds out.

I've just been to my local cash point (sunday morning) and my card's been declined and eaten up by the machine, I've phoned Lloyds bank and they tell me that between 7pm on friday night and 7am saturday £2'500 was withdrawn from my account from various cash machines in Croydon.


OK i know i will get the money back, but it leaves me with no cash for the bank holiday weekend and a very bitter taste in my mouth.

I am thinking about giving up work and signing on
 26 August 2012 11:42 AM
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daveparry1

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So had you used that card in the Croydon area prior to Friday night Dave?

Dave.
 26 August 2012 11:43 AM
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Dave69

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yes i used it in a cash machine on the thursday night, by noon on friday i was on my way home
 26 August 2012 11:46 AM
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daveparry1

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Yes but I meant to say had you used it anywhere besides the cash machine, just wondering if it was cloned from the machine or some other retailer or pub/restaurant etc,
 26 August 2012 11:59 AM
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Dave69

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no i only used it in the cash machine so thats the only place it could of been cloned
 26 August 2012 12:05 PM
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daveparry1

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Probably the old recording tape and false fascia trick I suppose although I thought with that scam they pulled your card back out after you'd left the machine thinking the card was stuck inside.
 26 August 2012 12:09 PM
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AncientMariner

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Unless LTSB have changed their policy, £2,500 in 12 hours albeit two different days is rather a lot. I have always worked on a much lower daily limit.

Also, how will YOU prove that it wasn't you who withdrew the money? Problem is you were in Croyden at the time. And I bet the device on the cashpoint you used has long gone.

ps Just phoned LTSB and my Premier a/c allows up to £500 per day from a cashpoint using my DEbit card. She said that you could get more over the counter. So sounds like besides cash, yours has been used for online purchases.

Good Luck with LTSB.

Cheers!

Clive

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Clive S Carver GCGI IEng MIET
 26 August 2012 12:12 PM
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daveparry1

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I am puzzled by this though because even if they'd got your pin number somehow (camera hidden above the keypad) they wouldn't have been able to get cash out without your card, which they didn't have did they.
 26 August 2012 12:23 PM
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daveparry1

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Clive, you mentioned online purchases, that's something that I don't quite understand because if you purchase something over the phone they ask for card number and also the 3 digit security code on the back of the card, but when purchasing online the security code doesn't get asked for does it,

Dave.
 26 August 2012 12:33 PM
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slittle

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I think I'd be having a word with your local manager Dave to ask him how the card managed to withdraw that sort of amount.

Neither my business nor personal one will allow more than £400 per day so even if you assume the system allows friday night before midnight and after midnight as two different days I'm surprised it gave that much.

I have to say I don't use my cards hardly at all in cashpoints, cash is done on the card over the branch counter and I keep separate credit cards for personal, business and family transactions that way it's easy to spot dodgy ones...

I was hit for about £15k a couple of years ago on one of them but luckily the fraudsters had taken £1 a couple of days before which I'd spotted and alerted the fraud department prior to the big withdrawal.


Not been your year so far Dave, things can only get better mate.


Stu
 26 August 2012 01:23 PM
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alancapon

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Originally posted by: daveparry1
I am puzzled by this . . . they wouldn't have been able to get cash out without your card . . .

If the correct details were copied from the original card, these can be put onto another card and as long as the pin number was recorded, re-used in cash machines. It is always worth a quick check round a cash machine to ensure everything looks correct and does not appear loose or unusual before you trust it with your card, and even then shield the keypad as you type the pin.

Regards,

Alan.
 26 August 2012 01:29 PM
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AncientMariner

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That's an interesting point, re the 3-digit number. I've been using my card a bit on-line recently and I did have to key it in. So my asssumption that online fraud had taken place as well is wrong. I can't see how it could have been done over the counter as suggested by LTSB's girl on the phone to me - since you would need a physical card with a chip.

However, a friend of mine, who at the time banked at Barclay's once received a letter from the bank saying his £10K loan was approved and ready to spend. When he queried this, as he had no knowledge of it, he was told that he had gone into the Rhyl branch (about 25 miles away) and they had him on their CCTV at the counter. This was odd, since he was at his desk in work at the time... What was really annoying though for him, was that they treated him as the guilty party and not the victim. Also, Barclays would not tell him what their own investigation latter discovered and ISTR the good old Data Protection Act was quoted to him for good measure!

Yes, I would be querying as to why when large cash transactions had taken place, no bells had rung.

Cheers!

Clive

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 26 August 2012 03:36 PM
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Dave69

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i did ask lloyds how come i can only take £500 a day using my card but they managed 2 1/2 in about 12 hours and at the moment they cant answer. but it seems I did buy a new TV

by the time of the first withdrawl i was about 80 miles away in my local pub
 26 August 2012 06:58 PM
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Jaymack

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Card cloning equipment with pin cameras has been widespread throughout the U.K. for many years, it seems to be a niche market cornered by eastern europeans; you will then normally see them hanging out nearby the ATM's. Look at the TV programmes on Police files, there are numerous cases where they have arrested car occupants "Going equipped" as the jargon goes.

I don't know how the equipment can be recognised by the average person, I seldom withdraw cash, but I prefer to use ATM's inside the banks if possible. Then there's always the ASDA "Do you want cash back?", One day I'll say YesI

If paying a hotel bill etc., I would use a Debit card, since I don't carry much money around in my wallet, A £5 note is enough for me.

Regards
 26 August 2012 10:57 PM
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zeeper

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Maybe they entered your room after you fell asleep, and made a clone of your card. If I was you I wouldnt use that tooth brush again.

Some years back when I was living in Aldershot. I would buy the odd thing in a corner shop closed to where I lived. They didnt speak much English and aways had strange music playing loudly in the back ground. I always paid cash except on one occasion. Two days later I get a phone call from bank my card had be used in America.

The card was in my view the whole time, Allah knows how they did it.
 27 August 2012 08:58 AM
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Zs

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Dave that's horrible for you. Empathy on both counts except I didn't lose my van, just the contents.

I had my card cloned (or something) a little while back and I still had it in my posession. The fraudulent usage started with £100 then £250 and then they went for the big one which was what alerted the bank. All withdrawals were in a branch in South London 'I've lost my card can I have some cash'.

As I told you at the time, I had only made one on-line purchase in the weeks before and it was from Screwfix. Actually it was over the phone with them. I still wonder.

However, my card had been in my bag in the corner of the room on a building site and we had a new lad on the team. One of those kids who says 'allo princess, cor look at you darlin'... with the tell-tale blue eyes so clear that you can almost smell the hard drugs in his pocket. I don't think he had been in South London and I don't think he was really bright enough to pull this off but who knows? Oh, he's in prison for beating up his Mrs now. Class Act.

It took a long time to get it all sorted but I did manage to keep the existing account numbers and I did get it all back. Cash only for a while Dave, and take your passport with you to the bank.

A friend had her card stolen from her purse after using it in Tesco and then being distracted by the thieves who had seen her key in her number then stole it whilst one asked her for directions. She did not get repaid by the bank.

Zs
 27 August 2012 11:28 AM
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tomgunn

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Sorry to hear that too! I was quite shocked when I went for a game of golf at Horton Park the other day... he said do you want a receipt?!?!?!?!?! I wondered what he meant??? well you'll need my password thingy surely? Nope... he wanted to just swipe it for me. Now I've been playing golf there for many years and I never knew that my card could be just swiped for anything up to £15 per go... and he told me that if you have a radio signal thing at the top of your card anyone can just go anywhere and they can pay for anything up to £15 a go... now I will contact Virgin and cancel the radio thing as I don't want anyone doing this if they steal It from me! So, why not check out if you too have a radio signal thing at the top of your card... if it does get it changed ... how stupid is it that the CC companies even think of doing this ... to make it easier for these criminals... my mind boggles!!!

Also I always cover my card details when I use a hole in the wall and 2 years ago I was working right over the other side of London and had to use a foreign petrol station ... you know the ones... where they are owned and run by immigrants as I never use 'corner' shops and only fill up with petrol from sainsburys 99% of the time as I don't want to give my money to foreigners at all! Anyways, I paid for some petrol and when I got to one of the jobs I got a call from Nation Wide asking me if I had bought anything from Canada that day and I told them no as I have never been there nor bought anything from there either! It turned out that as soon as I had left the foreign petrol station someone tried to purchase something from Canad to the tune of £300.00... so at least that was stopped and it also turns out that lilly law knows that some petrol stations are doing this but they are understaffed to go for all of them!

What a country a?

Well I hope that you get your monies refunded soon and just be careful out there!!

regards...

Tom

-------------------------
Tom .... ( The TERMINATOR ).

handyTRADESMAN ... haha

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 27 August 2012 12:44 PM
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alancapon

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I had a Mastercard cloned a few years back. LLoyds Card Services were very good and refunded the money that was taken (about £3K in total over a week or so). They were also able to take "the appropriate action" against the person involved - they had booked a number of package holiday flights with it. I believe the airline concerned didn't take much persuading to reveal the names of the passengers!

The only time I had used that card recently was at an airline desk to change the time of my flight home at a UK regional airport. I believe the person concerned no longer works there. I am now more careful about never letting my cards out of my sight.

Regards,

Alan.
 27 August 2012 02:28 PM
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peteTLM

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sorry to hear that mate.
There are unfortunatly 2 points here, being cash machine, and croydon.

No where is safe.
Ive bought diesel cash for 3 years as the petrol stations round here do not have a good track record.

Also barclays have a very good fraud detection systems and i get a phone call if anything at all is out of the ordinary.

5 years ago, i apparently bought 2 laptops in hong kong and a pda and another 2 laptops from the midlands when i was at work in london. A quick phone call and rhe cash was back the next day.

Good luck mate

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 27 August 2012 05:26 PM
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Cremeegg

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Separate cards if the only realistic way to limit your exposure. I've separate cards for business, for business online/by phone, personal use and for personal use online/by phone.

Cash withdrawals wherever possible inside the premises and for the last ten years always the same slightly odd amount. Anything other than this amount withdrawn is easily spotted.

Any account I have that is linkied to the net or an ATM I keep the minimum practical amount in - takes a bit of juggling but will hopefully save me much grief one day.

Diesel by cash wherever possible as I know too many people that have had their cards skimmed from petrol stations - all it has to be said from Shell garages run by Sri Lankans.

Whilst I loathe Santander for lying about their "free business banking forever" I have to admit that their fraud detection is very good. It triggers on both personal & business accounts with anything a little unusual - even a tank of diesel about 200 miles from home - a minor inconvenience that I'm happy with. I remain uneasy about telling a stranger in a call centre that I'm going to be away on holiday though - so I don't. Paranoid me?
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