Went to see an industrial unit which is now used by a company which doesn't use the 3ph outlets or breakers in the dist board which were used by the previous resident company.

They need an EICR for the insurance company but I feel it would be easier to disconnect the circuits which they don't/won't use than locate and test them.

12 way 3ph dist board 50% used 50% not used and turned off, 6 way storage heater board, 3 way 1ph board for small toilet area.

Can you use the limitation box on the EICR or will the insurance company get a bit funny if all the circuits in the installation aren't tested.

The previous company was a carpentry workshop and a quick look in the dist board revealed a thick layer of mdf dust!

Advice required with thanks.

id say strictly treat it as 2 seperate jobs. 1, do the disconnections stating that no other remedials are included, 2 do the eicr, and state that unused circuits have been disconnected.
Its not a favour so make sure that 2 items are priced for. Everyone knows where they stand.

It muddies the water otherwise.

edited to say include a bit of hovering in the first item.

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Lack of planning on your part doesn't make it an emergency on mine....

Every man has to know his limitations- Dirty Harry

All circuits should be checked, even though they will be stripped out and rewired for single phase circuits latter.

I can't see anybody doing any work on that board until all that MDF dust is removed.

Legh

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Why do we need Vernier Calipers when we have container ships?

http://www.leghrichardson.co.uk

"Science has overcome time and space. Well, Harvey has overcome not only time and space - but any objections."

Assuming the unused circuits are disconnected would the redundant cables need to be connected to the earth bar within the dist board? I seem to remember something from an NICEIC book but i could of been for unused cores in a multicore cable.

To clarify the 3ph circuits used to supply a 3ph isolators to which machines were connected. The machines are no longer there and won't be coming back or the unused circuits reused for other 3ph or 1ph equipment. I was just going to cap the cables at the breaker and either remove the MCB and replace with blanks or just leave the MCB in place.

I think that a clean on the dist board should be first on the list of jobs.

I am not sure of the logic with this one, you are supposed to be doing a simple basic risk assessment and not ripping stuff apart, (per GN3) the first question you will be asked if you make a mistake is why you did it, before you rip the three phase apart you are still going to need to check the circuits to ensure they dont serve other areas so why not do a quick test and leave in situ, the problem is small industrial units change hands on a regular basis and the next tenant might need three phase and to burden them with the cost of having it reconnected and tested is a bit foolish.

regards

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"Take nothing but a picture,
leave nothing but footprints!"
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"Oh! The drama of it all."
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"You can throw all the philosophy you like at the problem, but at the end of the day it's just basic electrical theory!"
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The logic is why burden the current user of the unit in having to pay for locating and testing circuits which they haven't or want to use and have been turned off for the last 3 years since the start of their tenancy. Its almost certain they don't serve other items.

As I originally said, can I use the extent and limitations box to restrict the circuits tested to thoses currently in use or disconnect them at the dist board.

If the answer is no then I will have to test them all and the current occupier has to pay for it.

I don't think the previous tenant cared about the cost to the next and so on.

You don't "have" to test anything - personally, I'd give them a quick visual as you are pottering about, record them on the schedule, turn them off and enter no results against them.

However, the insurance company may object. If so - just turn the circuits off, strap the load end isolators to earth (all cores) and then ignore them.

Regards

OMS

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Failure is always an option

Why the load end? wont that be a big bang if they were turnrd on in error. I can find the supply end without issue as its in the dist board. If I do it the load end then I will have trace the circuit it first to find the load end.

Because it's easier to earth down the unused cores (more space), the system should be under suitable control so breakers turned off and labelled shouldn't be turned on without checking/authorization, because the isolator will be off anyway, because it keeps a mass of connections out of the DB and if a machine does need to be connected it can be done without turning off the whole DB to reconnect and the earthing links can be removed when the machine "tails" are connected up - all in the same place.

makes sense to me

regards

OMS

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Failure is always an option

Sorry misunderstood. so we are talking earth links in the the load side of the isolator and therefore you need to turn on the MCB and the isolator before the big bang.

How do I exclude the requirement to test these isolated circuits?

Nope - it needs to be supply side of the isolator - if the MCB is off and the isolator is off, and you earth load side, the cores are still floating.

How do you exclude them - well either ignore them on the EICR or , as I suggested, you itemise them on the schedule (as they really exist) and enter LIM with the reason "isolated circuit"

Regards

OMS

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Failure is always an option

yes of course your right. had a homer simpson moment "D'oh!"

Hi DR2366, it may be a condition of the tenancy agreement that when the existing tenant leaves the property that it be restored to it's original condition, so if you do decide to disconnect the circuits make sure you take the time to record what went where and label them accordingly, incase you get called back to reinstate them!
Or it might be just as easy to leave things as they are, I would hope that taking the time to locate half a dozen circuits to 3ph isolators and do a visual assesment and a loop test in an ex-workshop is unlikely to bankrupt the existing occupier!

Edited: 21 August 2012 at 06:19 PM by weirdbeard

Thanks all for your input, its nice to get others views on things that I don't come across all that often. After bashing it back and fore the appropriate course of action seems much clearer now.

As a plan I will start by cleaning the dist board out then proceed with the inspection as normal but restrict the testing to just an EFLI and visual inspection on the circuits currently switched off. I agree the nearer the installation is to its original condition the less issue there will be when the company moves on.