hi everyone,
since starting an apprenticeship as an electrician i have continued to do the bs7671 requirements of electrical instalation then went on to do the 2391 electrical testing and inspection qualification. i now want to do either a hnc or hnd electrical based. my final goal is to become a electrical contracts manager but im not sure which course to do next. any advice on the subject would be much appreciated!!!

Thanks.

the next level for you is the HNC, then it will be a HND or foundation degree. To be honest when ive been researchjing what i wanted to do myself, a lot of jobs want either a degree, or HNC with experience. It will help massivley that youve been on the tools. For a contracts manager, maybe a course on contract law?

There is an NVQ 4 in building services i beleive, but its brand new, and will it be reconised by employers with the same esteem as a HNC?

thanks johnboy, but the reason im stuck is because i can get into the hnd now without doing the hnc because the testing and 17th edition are both NVQ level 3 and combined give me the same ucas points as 3 Alevels, well thats what my local collage told me today, and as im not working at the moment i want to get as qualified as possible as quick as possible???

im due to start HNC in electrical engineering, and im a qualified spark too, with 2391, 17th, NVQ3,C&G level 3, 2391-20 and i cant jump. or at least i havent been made aware.

id say do ONC first, or at least a maths transition course.
The maths at HNC is nothing like you would have come across before.
HND is basically extra units bolted onto a HNC. How many years were they offering you the HND over?

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Lack of planning on your part doesn't make it an emergency on mine....

Every man has to know his limitations- Dirty Harry

I dont think the above mentioned qualifications are NVQs, I think they maybe VRQs.

Let me help you on this one, maths is going to be a sticking point for many and you have to decide which route in this area you are going to take, standard maths is about theory and calculus but if you want to have the edge when competing in the world against other building services engineers you need to consider Engineering Mathematics which is more about solving real world problems.

Some time ago now half way through my M&E apprenticeship I applied for a place at University, the top universities then you required xx number of points to be considered, anyway I had enough points for anywhere so I thought that was okay but there was a sticking point with Manchester (UMIST) involving the 4 year Electrical Engineering and Computer Science course where you had to have an A grade in Maths, Physics and Chemistry although two A's in Maths and Physics and a B in Chemistry would get you in, my problem was I had an A grade in Physics and Chemistry and a B grade in Maths, it seems I did quite well in my pre-admission three hour exam and was accepted on condition for one day a week I attended another faculty in Manchester and given a year to gain an A grade in Engineering Mathematics which I did, I mention this because on a number of occasions the award in Engineering Mathematics has boosted me to the top of the pile in job applications.

There is an excellent book called Engineering Mathematics by K Stroud which I do have a copy and sorry I am not giving this one away, I do believe the latest edition includes online support and tutorship but most colleges and universities around the country offer the Engineering Mathematics course in some form.

regards

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"Take nothing but a picture,
leave nothing but footprints!"
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"Oh! The drama of it all."
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"You can throw all the philosophy you like at the problem, but at the end of the day it's just basic electrical theory!"
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I'll second that - I found the sums bit of engineering courses quite hard - i could often see the answers, I just didn't have the tools to get there - Stroud was a godsend, along with a bit of help from a grumpy structural engineering lecturer who litle in the way of social skills or grace, but could get across the concepts by any means that he found people receptive to.

I've never forgotten problems involving second order differential equations based on Euler anaylysis of buckling of slim and slender struts because to appeal to the schoolboy mind he used to take great delight in lessons called slim and slender sluts !!

get the maths under your belt is my advice - without it you will struggle

Regards

OMS

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Failure is always an option

I'll third it. The Stroud books are the dogs gonads for engineering maths.

(that's the last book recommendation I'm making for a while)

Thats absolutely true I cant count the number of times someone has come out with an analogy totally unrelated to the problem but has made the understanding of the problem click into place, and the thing is you remember it forever.



True, our college at home offer this course two evenings a week over a year and at the last count it was only £480, but I do believe it comes under the Maths/English 'Skills for All' criteria and in some areas it could be free, basically it just an A level course, something a student would achieve in their foundation year at college before going to university.

regards

-------------------------
"Take nothing but a picture,
leave nothing but footprints!"
-------------------------
"Oh! The drama of it all."
-------------------------
"You can throw all the philosophy you like at the problem, but at the end of the day it's just basic electrical theory!"
-------------------------

Edited: 17 August 2012 at 11:35 AM by rocknroll

As other people have said you may struggle with the maths if you jump straight into the HNC as the electrical principles side gets quite intense at times.

After 2 years of City and Guilds I completed an ONC before I did my HNC so there was a natrual progression which prepared you for the maths in the HNC. You could only do the HNC if you had the ONC or A-level maths at the time but this may have changed. After six years of day release I'd had enough, but well worth it for the long term, the HNC is a great course.

All I remember from my HNC is J notation must be getting to old. First did ONC day release then HNC at Farnborough Tec followed up with 16th and 2400.

That brings back some memories, you have got to love complex numbers, that and fourier analysis plus laplace transforms = some real headaches on a Monday morning.

The maths might be a struggle at times but is worth the effort, especially if you wish to transfer or broaden your knowledge in future. With the maths and a good technical understanding of one's current discipline (be that mechanical or electrical), taking on board the other discipline will be easier as the maths is the common 'language' of scientific disciplines.

I'm no maths wizard (but I'm hopefully still learning...). From age 16 in 1974, with five O-levels (not particularly good marks), I was fortunate enough to sneak into a Merchant Navy Marine Engineering apprenticeship taking first OND then OND Endorsements (and getting much better results than in my O-levels, mainly because I was a bit more mature by the time I took my OND stuff!). Much to my employer's dismay after four years of financial investment in me, I left to study Mechanical Engineering at a 'red brick' university (I even had the cheek to ask them for sponsorship - you can guess their reply!). Strangely enough, this move was not quite for career reasons (I was looking forward to continuing travelling the work on a floating town!) but because I just had the engineering bug and I felt I wanted to understand much more / much deeper. Like rocknroll, I found a sticking point (with UMIST and others) as the universities simply didn't seem to understand anything other than A-levels as entry qualifications, and OND / Marine Engineering was double dutch to them. My offers ranged from 'if you do as well in your forthcoming OND Endorsements as you did in your OND two years ago, we may put you on our preliminary year to get your maths up to speed before considering you for the real degree course' to 'we'll take you now regardless of your forthcoming OND Endorsements'!

On starting my three year honours degree course at Liverpool, being a couple of years older than the A-level school leavers around me made me self conscious enough, but realising their A-level maths was significantly above my O-level / OND embarrassed me even more! The maths, not just as a subject in its own right (for first year) but as the common language of the engineering subjects, was a real challenge but I stuck at it as otherwise the only advantage I had over the A-level chaps, my practical / technical training, would have been wasted.

Some thirty years later, having been fortunate yet again to almost always work in multi discipline positions (jack of all trades, master of absolutely nothing!), I'm unashamed to not infrequently have to return to some relatively basic maths (or mechanical or electrical...) books to check stuff before I put foot in mouth. I also often have to explain basic or complex technical issues to people with even less maths than me (lawyers, etc., who generally don't have science understanding either) and I end up going to the basic maths / engineering books again to test my own understanding and pitch my reports at the right level.

So, if the maths becomes hard, just stick at it as your engineering background and interest will see you through. Good luck.

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Regards,

Brian