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Topic Title: Dodgy PIR - what do you do?
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Created On: 09 August 2012 06:07 PM
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 09 August 2012 06:07 PM
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cesltd

Posts: 124
Joined: 21 January 2009

Was asked by a client to change a fuseboard and do a few other bits on a property they have recently bought. She showed me the PIR she had done on the property, a month ago, prior to purchase. Whilst having a quick read through and a look around the property I started noticing some glaring errors on the PIR. Like saying the gas hasn't been bonded when it clearly has, not spotting unenclosed terminal blocks in full view, JB with water dripping on it under sink, noting shower circuit RCD as 63amp when it's in fact a 40amp RCD, etc etc.

So carried out my own full PIR prior to board change and found a neutral/earth short on a power ring, amongst other things. Also noticed all ceiling roses were painted in place and showed no signs of having been opened in years. This bloke was either dangerously incompetent or simply did not carry out a proper inspection and just made it up as he went along.

This is the first time I have come across this and was wondering what the best course of action is. What do you do in these in circumstances? He is supposedly an NIC EIC domestic installer, well that's what it says on the cert anyway.
 09 August 2012 06:28 PM
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hifly

Posts: 693
Joined: 06 November 2005

get the house holder to call the niceic and complain

-------------------------
Vince

Prove Dead Stay Alive


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 09 August 2012 07:21 PM
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davezawadi

Posts: 2656
Joined: 26 June 2002

I'm afraid that a complaint will have little effect. I suggest that the customer take action to claim the full cost of correcting the installation to the status given in the first PIR (Was a PIR done recently, you are both out of date, we have the EICR now). PM me for some more info. The only way is to hit them in the pocket!

-------------------------
David
CEng etc, don't ask, its a result not a question!
 09 August 2012 09:02 PM
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mikejumper

Posts: 1714
Joined: 14 December 2006

The last time I came across something like this I suggested the customer call the contractor for a refund before contacting the scheme provider.
In this case it was an EIC following a CU change that was innacurate and incomplete.
The guy paid up, I think around £180.
 09 August 2012 10:45 PM
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Cremeegg

Posts: 528
Joined: 13 July 2007

Tried to get NICEIC to take action over a similarly dire PIR by one of their DI's. 8 way boards listed as 5 way boards. Ze values of 20ohms but Zs values well below 1 ohm. RCD times shown on circuits without RCD's. RCD trip times shown when the RCD's would not trip. All clearly made up.

NIC wouldnt take any action unless client gave the inept and dangerous contractor a chance to remedy his defects. Client not wanting to see contractor again so no action.

Other schemes complaints policies are little different - they dont want to know - it might affect their membership numbers. The only action they ever appear to take is for breach of using their logos in advertising.

What did I do? - walk round the installation with client pointing out the obvious defects in the PIR. Client then asked me to do a "proper" one. Another contractor was asked to do the remedials as I didnt fancy many awkward access to many aspects of the work.

Client now happier, me unhappy with such cowboys and inept schemes in our midst, final contractor happy. Original PIR merchant still in business and still with NICEIC - so presumably happy.
 09 August 2012 10:47 PM
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John Peckham

Posts: 7459
Joined: 23 April 2005

If he is an NICEIC Domestic Installer does have approval to do Periodic Inspection and Testing? If not it is a waste of time complaining to the NICEIC as it is out of scope for his approval unless he is using the NICEIC Logo.

-------------------------
John Peckham

http://www.astutetechnicalservices.co.uk/
 10 August 2012 07:28 AM
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ebee

Posts: 5698
Joined: 02 December 2004

A lot of PIRs are totally fiction.
Including NICEIC approved of many years standing & DI s .
In fact I find it a total surprise when I find a realistic one - I am not nitpicking either - I`m talking glaringly obvious defects that are not recorded and compliant things listed as defects.
It is the norm (sadly) power to the JP gold standard I says

-------------------------
Regards,
Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
 10 August 2012 08:53 AM
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Zs

Posts: 2904
Joined: 20 July 2006

cesltd, there isn't much you can do which is a shame. I had one on BSI paper showing PME on a TNS and RCBO times for each circuit, there were no RCBOs or RCDs in the whole place. this was a refurb and the client hadn't moved in or started using the electrics at this point. I was called because she tried to hoover and the new DB began to arc and smoke. There were loads of things wrong which would have shown up on a tester. The IR was shown as >500 throughout and it was in fact well below that. In fact, it was at 0M on a socket circuit on account of the dessicated mouse in a socket box.

Curiously, If I see >500 I expect to find a Fluke was used. For >299 I expect to see a Megger. This was on the form as a Megger and at that time I didn't know they went up to 500....

That one was clearly a drive-by PIR and neither my own governing body nor BSI were interested. He was indeed on the BSI register and had driven 150 miles to drive by that house.

Only the client can activate a complaint but even then I wouldn't go through the hoops any more.

Zs
 11 August 2012 08:47 AM
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dg66

Posts: 1671
Joined: 11 January 2008

Probably didnt drive 150 miles,he used google earth or street view. BTW my Meggers go upto 1&2 giga Ohms.

-------------------------
Regards

Dave(not Cockburn)
 11 August 2012 10:14 AM
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Fm

Posts: 671
Joined: 24 August 2011

Send them your invoice and leave it a that.
Are you charging for your time for the phonecalls and emails to customer/niceic regarding poor pir.
Make sure your own work is up to a high standard and leave it at that.
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