When you cant trace a circuit when doing inspection and testing, would we be safer to disconnect the circuit ?

I know it might cause inconvenience to the client if it turns out to be a water heater in a false ceiling but the safer option would be to disconnect and make a suitable comment on the report.

We could just switch it off and put a suitable notice next to the circuit breaker.

I think we should all adopt the same protocol in the interest of continuity but what is the best option?

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keithredpath

the best option is to arrange to investigate each occurence based on the particular installation under consideration - why would a "one size fits all" solution ever be optimal.

Regards

OMS

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Failure is always an option

I would do as OMS has said and leave it in place , i have left unidentified circuits disconnected before and has cost me a visit at the most inconvenient time!

Misterben

Limitations?

If old and of suspect material or workmanship (rubber twin with earth, VIR in slip jointed conduit, flex used as fixed wiring, etc) then I would dissconect it.

If relatively new looking with no obvious concerns re material or workmanship, then leave connected.
It might be something hidden but important.

On consumer unit changes I leave any unidentified cables disconnected and tape them up and leave them inside the c/unit, I can't remember ever having to go back and re-connect any so far,

Dave

In a domestic, that may be practicable Dave - would you want to start isolating and taping up circuits in say a 500 bed acute district hospital ? - just on the off chance you don't like the look of them

As I said, the action needs to be appropriate for the location - speak to the client - explain that he is already in breach of EAWR by not being able to identify the system under his control and asking him if he wishes the circuits traced and identfied before they are tested - or does he want to make alternative arrangements.

I really, really don't understand why you guys want to take on the mantle of responsibility - don't fall for the gold lycra superman suit - it won't offer any protection from a good barrister when you end up in court !!

Regards

OMS

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Failure is always an option

I can only speak from my domestic and very small commercial experience OMS,

Dave.

Of course Dave - I was just responding to Keith's idea that we all do the same thing - which clearly won't work

regards

OMS

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Failure is always an option

There is nothing wrong with flexible conductors for fixed wiring Broadgage, 521.9.1, as long as they are suitably installed and protected, just like T&E. Such cables are common in Europe with YY and SY types widely used under floors and inside stud walls. In fact they use it for sub mains and the like, in a similar way to SWA here.

Unless you get client agreement, I would not disconnect a circuit unless I could find a C1 defect with it, simply being unable to find the end quickly in a big installation would leave significant amounts disconnected!

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David
CEng etc, don't ask, its a result not a question!

Hope your insurance pays out for a critical circuit you have disconnected just because you do not what it does. Things like trace heating on a pipe that is hidden away and only does it's stuff when the temperature drops below 5 degrees. When the fire sprinkler main fractures and floods an office block you are going to be in it up to your neck. If you think that cannot happen many years ago I saw a 4 inch cast iron valve split in half when it froze and the damage it did when it thawed. I had trace heating fitted after that and yes it was lagged before!

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John Peckham

http://www.astutetechnicalservices.co.uk/

More to the point for me TBH, if you can't trace and identify all circuits how can an install be satisfactory on an EICR?
How do you know that the highest Zs reading you have is actually the highest, what if there is another thing connected 100m away that you have not identified?...

Well I suppose that is why you would issue an unsatisfactory report.

A ECIR does not require you to carry out the remedial work, just report the departure, as OMS as already stated inform the client and let them make arrangements for the remedial work.

Hi
I got a good story from my previous company. The company had the contract for Hilton Hotels. At the time 15 years ago the policy was excactly what keithredpath suggested. If you cannot find a cct you have to leave it off.
2 lads went down to London to test one of the Hilton hotels. They could not find a circuit so they left it off. 4 oclock in the moorning the fire alarm went off. The whole hotel evacuated, firebrigate arrived and all the customers moved to other hotels.
Next day they found out what happend, the company paid the whole bill which I think it was around £35,000.

So just make a comment and leave it on.

Regards

Paul

I've come across a few in domestic premises and disconnect them, commercial settings however I'd be more cautious depending on the setting and would likely leave advisory comments. If its a report as indicated that may be a different story as the report is advisory.

In domestic I've checked every accessory and left disconnected when putting in new CUs with nothing being left without power on the premises. Funnily enough these situations have been in ground floor flats with the cable disappearing into the ceiling somewhere...

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Experience can sometimes show that cost prevails over quality and safety, such little self-value that people hold.