Hi all,

Does anyone know how to get involved in bigger works rather than domestic and light commercial. Or even being able to tender for jobs for bigger opportunities, i currently do a lot of small domestic work and have experience in commercial / industrial works.
I presume those in the know wouldnt want to share their secrets?
any help advice appreciated

misterben

I would not say that there's any secret per se.
In my case, I just kept plugging away in the commercial sector and chipped away at the small jobs and slowly got larger and larger jobs.
I can truthfully say that I have handled jobs of this size, that size and that size for these customers, and here are thier numbers and e-mail addressess if you want a reference.

Once you can discribe jobs in terms of thier cost value, then commercial people who are not electricians, but are maybe M&E engineers or consultants can understand what sort of jobs you can do and to put your way. I am small beans compared to the big companies, but I know there is a niche in the relatively small project values of 5000 - 50000.

Especially in out of hours work, nights and week ends. I think most people in offices and industry would be astounded how much goes on when people cannot see and businessess are prepared to pay for the axiom: contractors should be neither seen nor heard.

Here are some of my thoughts from a few years ago and I'll still stick by them, but I'm still not a medium sized company by any stretch of the immagination. (3 or 4 guys at a time, most of the time)

http://www.theiet.org/Forums/f...35406&highlight_key=y

Commercial work is very hard indeed. RAMS being the least of anybodies problems. Meetings, price estimates, project reports, and interim payments only really happen on jobs greater than 2 months in duration, large amounts of money needed to pay for every job and a long period to receive payment for the work done. Customers who demand you come now, excuses not required.
Having to deal with other companies Quantity surveyors, project managers and accounts departments.

I now spend maybe 3 days a week on the tools and 4 days a week on the paper work, pricing and organising people and materials.

I have not had a holiday for 2 years or more than 4 days in a row (once) off. For those who say this is just poor management - I know, I know but it's easier said than done.

But I think we're getting there (I hope) Unfortunately in the commercial world, and at my small size, every job could be be my last if the money does not eventually roll in.

Good luck bud

Ben
Stay small do what your good at, there are plenty of main contractors out there who would love to take money off you
If you have work and putting food on the table with a quality of life stay where you are, it's all about quality of life
Enjoy your family and friends it's about having a happy balance. Being bigger doesn't necessarily mean more money but will undoubtedly mean more headaches. Nothing wrong in being small in fact if you asked many of the guys on this forum if they could do it all again I'm 100% certain that staying small with a quality of life most would agree
Good luck buddy do what your good at, the grass is certainly not greener

MrP

I would suggest contacting some office interior companies and giving them your company profile. Be warned tho, that the bigger the contracts the bigger the headaches as mentioned above, I know too many companies who have gone under, purely on cash flow problems. You may well have to wait for your money, in excess of 3 months, regardless of your contract agreement.

Perhaps you could also invest in joining construction line, where companies are on a buyers/sellers restriction

Regards

Jobbo

Thanks for the replies everyone,
I think in an ideal world I would subcontract and do my own work as and when i can. After what you have said it seems you have an awful lot more to deal with like paper work and headaches, not to mention a lot of money to help with cash flow!
I feel I would like to have the opportunity to tender for some smaller works , I guess then I would decide whether I want or need the hassle.
if I didnt try it I feel it would be something I always wish i had tried!

What do you mean by buyer/seller restrictions? I have seen the construction line logo about , but presume it is another expense for a business?

thanks
Misterben

I agree with Mr P, if you're doing ok just stay as you are, bigger jobs = bigger headaches and financial risks!

Dave.

With construction line, members (buyers) can only use contractors (sellers) as they meet certain requirements i.e. health and safety and project management. Take a look at their website and all will be clear

Regards

Jobbo

3 months to be paid are you a money lender or an electrician? I hope you charge well for lending your money out. Always amazes me how we so quickly give out credit to people without any checks. Should be seven days max for payment unless you factor your invoices and build the cost in.

Pretty much standard practice for some companies, take it or leave it. In fairness I have worked for some fairly big concerns and some have fast track for the minnows, usually two weeks

I would say 70% of our customer base is 30 days. We won't and don't deal with anyone who wants 90.

It's one of those things that once you stand the first month (or three) it doesn't matter so much as it just rolls. We're far from medium sized, currently 6 of us but I'd agree with what's already been said about time "off the tools"

Other than a quick fault first thing this morning, I've spent all day either in site meetings or driving, although with the current weather driving with air con has it's advantages over being in a barn working

Stu

Air con - are you getting soft Stu

Older mate....

We've been on a rooftop for the last three days and believe me I needed the aircon for the drive home.

The wife moaned tonight when I brought another crate of bottled water for tomorrow's stint.


Stu

We have Adams Ale on tap in these parts, cheaper than bottled.

Andy

So do we, but Abbot Ale is better

I'd run out of bottles to put it in. The last load got dumped on site so I decided best buy a crate then refill the bottles for next week in the unlikely event it stays warm.

Stu

Ohh and don't forget the 5% retainer you wait for a year to get, if the QS doesn't screw you over first

Or the firm goes pop before hand.

Plus the fact that you only get the following from smaller/domestic customers
choccie biccies
top notch coffee
wine/champagne thank you's
immediate on line payment
and if it goes really well - HUGS!

I'm staying put!

And if you do any work for Carillion - they have a 3 percent kickback that they take from you at the end of the job.

You have to add 3 percent to the cost of the job just for them.
They call it something fancy, but it is (IMO) robbery.

That on top of the retentions and the 90 days pay from the end of the month in which you invoice!

Some companies (again IMO) are beyond dispicable.

I am aware that some people who read this forum work for Carillion.

Be careful who you work for - the really big companies can be the worst crooks around.

Not quite true, some of my worst payers have been domestics, and best payers large multinationals

I used to play with the big boys in shopfitting. Our largest single contract was to supply furniture and fittings to Copenhagen airport (Kastrup) main Duty Free shop. I it was worth about £170k all in and a few weeks work out there to install.

All electrical equipment like fixed display lighting was pre-wired in our workshop so it was all plug and play on site

Good times indeed. We did a lot of that. We made some serious money.

So you ask how to get there. Well I worked for a small to medium shopfitting firm for 13 years previously. I was eventually works foreman/manager. The firm went belly up and Myself and a colleague spotted a gap in the market!
We got a poxy little workshop and started talking to the movers and shakers that I already knew.
I found out who was now going to be main contractor on the airport duty free jobs and phoned up the bosses. They already knew our pedigree and all they wanted to know is that we had facilities and staff to service their work.

We went down to London for meetings and found ourselves talking in terms of staged payments in the £40k bracket. We both experienced unease in the lower digestive tract but kept our nerve. And came away with some lucrative work.
We knew we could deliver but that if the main contractor saw our workshop he would laugh.

Anyway he wanted to see work in progress before releasing the first £40k. Great - not! The work was there but no one would have believed that we'd produced it there so we hired a bigger workshop just for a few few months and moved it all into there and paid some family members to stand round looking like tradesmen. I kid you not. We had 2 real employees at the time and got three other people to come in and look busy

It worked. The main contractor was happy, delighted in fact, and the cash rolled in
We built up a nice company from those slightly dishonest beginning but that is how it is. You have to stick your neck out to get moving.

The down side is having no personal life. Your employees become your new family.
And eventually you get screwed. Nobody, but nobody in big business cares a damn about the little fellow.

We got screwed (sorry I'm forever bleating about it!) big time Big, big time

We had been sensible, we were able wind it up fully solvent. There was only us that didn't get what we were owed.

I promised myself I'd never employ ever again. So I stuck it as a one man band, house bashing. Got fed up of killing myself and getting nowhere so bailed out of that too....

Life's too short. Honestly

-------------------------
"I learned very early the difference between knowing
the name of something and knowing something". - Richard P. Feynman