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Topic Title: Circuit Charts
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Created On: 08 July 2012 11:49 AM
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 08 July 2012 11:49 AM
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Richard64

Posts: 231
Joined: 15 October 2009

I can't find the reg, but does clear marking of the CU count as a circuit chart or does a separate one have to be supplied?
Oh, the appropriate reg number would be handy too.
 08 July 2012 12:00 PM
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microy

Posts: 352
Joined: 25 October 2005

I don't know the reg offhand but my NICEIC assessor insists on one.

Mike
 08 July 2012 12:03 PM
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Richard64

Posts: 231
Joined: 15 October 2009

But surely they can only insist on compliance with the regs.
 08 July 2012 12:06 PM
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microy

Posts: 352
Joined: 25 October 2005

The NICEIC are a law unto their selves.

Mike
 08 July 2012 12:08 PM
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Richard64

Posts: 231
Joined: 15 October 2009

Tell me about it.
However they can't class something as a non compliance if it isn't.
Hence my original question.
 08 July 2012 12:13 PM
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alpelec

Posts: 89
Joined: 04 November 2008

Hi Richard,

I don't know the reg either but I use these self-adhesive circuit detail labels and that seems to satisfy my NICEIC accessors.

www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/BKGCD.html

Regards

Tony
 08 July 2012 12:29 PM
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alpelec

Posts: 89
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Richard,

Have just realised the reg is also listed on the website for these labels as 514.9.1.

Tony
 08 July 2012 12:39 PM
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Richard64

Posts: 231
Joined: 15 October 2009

Thanks Tony,
It would appear that a separate chart is required.
No problem, I usually print them out on Amtech.
Just missed one and the assessor has made a bit of a song and dance.
 08 July 2012 01:03 PM
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topmark

Posts: 124
Joined: 27 March 2009

i photo copy the schedule of results,laminate it,and fix it adjacent to dis bd,or inside it if its large enough[ie,3 phase dis bd]
saves messing about writing out a duplicate.
 08 July 2012 01:20 PM
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spinlondon

Posts: 4437
Joined: 10 December 2004

Yes, I would have thought the schedule of test results would be acceptable as a circuit chart.
 08 July 2012 02:49 PM
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MrP

Posts: 832
Joined: 24 March 2006

Tricky ricky
Produce one with excel based on the model in the book put your logo telephone number e-mail address and bobs your aunty free advertising
Adapt it to include. Zs. Ipf DB zs.DB Ipf Fed from. Protected by.Protection type. Sub main cable type. Reference method, System type Earthing conductor size Main protective bonding conductor size. Services bonded. Rod if applicable Type and postion of Rod
All possibilities covered
In a previous life I used to cross reference the disboard schedule with the installation cert number date of issue and for domestic the BC submittal number and date. There is then a method of cross reference
From your trade organisation web site down load and stick their logo in the corner
And it looks like a proper jobbie Knowledge is power
Good luck buddy I would think your fairly new to this game
MrP
 08 July 2012 09:41 PM
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John Peckham

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To comply with BS7671 you need both. A circuit chart needs to be provided see 514.9.1. In addition each circuit breaker or fuse needs to be marked up to show it's function see 514.8.1.

This in my experience is rarely done. One of the biggest problems I experience is to open the front of a distribution board and find none of the circuit ways marked up or a few of the devices on the board marked. Circuit charts are rare.

We were I&Ting a very large office floor supplied from 2 No. 36/48 way boards. On circuit was marked up "new socket", that was about as useful as a chocolate tea point.

So what is it then that electricians don't like marking up boards and producing circuit charts?

-------------------------
John Peckham

http://www.astutetechnicalservices.co.uk/
 08 July 2012 09:47 PM
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KFH

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"So what is it then that electricians don't like marking up boards and producing circuit charts?"

Because it is at the end of the job which has invariably overrun, they want to go home and it takes time to do properly.

All of which are in my view poor excuses for not doing an essential part of the install. If they are prepared to skimp on this what else will have been missed that you can't see?
 09 July 2012 12:16 AM
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microy

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The circuit charts are on the certificates/EICRs which should be available to the person ordering any work in the future, therefore they should not be required at the origin.

If the person ordering the work has mislaid/ lost the information, or not bothered to pay for certification, then they should have to pay the extra cost of circuit tracing/testing.

All that should be required in my opinion is the identification of the protective devices for safety reasons.

Mike
 09 July 2012 02:03 AM
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Jaymack

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Originally posted by: microy
The circuit charts are on the certificates/EICRs which should be available to the person ordering any work in the future, therefore they should not be required at the origin.

L.O.L. Not what the scheme providers will say, it's a standard method of identifying circuits at the D.B., ask yours!

If the person ordering the work has mislaid/ lost the information, or not bothered to pay for certification, then they should have to pay the extra cost of circuit tracing/testing. All that should be required in my opinion is the identification of the protective devices for safety reasons.

Certification is not chargeable as an addition, to be withheld until payment for work, and requires to be kept for a period of time by the contractor, ask your scheme provider; although I doubt that you're registered; or have been assessed yet.

Regards
 09 July 2012 06:35 AM
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ebee

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Well you are either complying with the regs or you are not complying with the regs!

If you are complying with the regs then you must produce this as per reg
514.9.1

-------------------------
Regards,
Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
 09 July 2012 07:16 AM
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MrP

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Joined: 24 March 2006

"Not What the scam providers will say"
I think you will find that it is a requirement the scam providers only think they write the regulations
Mike mmmmm it's defiantly a requirement
Now one of those proper electricians out there can note as a deviation on their EICR without the use of any test gear what so ever
MrP
 09 July 2012 08:29 AM
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microy

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Jaymack

You've missed the point completely. I know it's a requirement of the regs and the scam providers and I do comply. The certificate is not a required to be kept for a period of time by the contractor, only a copy, and the person working on the installation may not be the original installer.

You assume too much, read my earlier post regarding my assessor. I have been with the NICEIC for more years than I like to think about. (Before it became a scammer).

The "drive past" merchants are having a field day and the people ordering the work are shirking their responsibilities if they aren't able to provide previous records.

I still maintain that that schedules at the origin are not NECESSARY.

Mike
 09 July 2012 09:52 AM
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perspicacious

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I don't think it is necessary to keep to the speed limit

Regards

BOD
 09 July 2012 10:14 AM
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daveparry1

Posts: 6108
Joined: 04 July 2007

All that's required at the origin/consumer unit is a simple chart listing the breaker number,breaker size, circuit description eg, cooker, sockets up/down, lights etc. Why do people try to make simple things so complicated!

Dave.
IET » Wiring and the regulations » Circuit Charts

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