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Topic Title: ESC Welcomes Select Committee Report on Part P
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Created On: 27 June 2012 11:51 PM
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 27 June 2012 11:51 PM
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alancapon

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The Electricity Safety Council has welcomed the report by the Communities and Local Government Select Committee which has come out in favour of retaining Part P of the Building Regulations largely in their current form.

See page 13 of Summer 2012 Switched On magazine for the article.


Regards,

Alan.
 28 June 2012 12:11 AM
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davezawadi

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Could one expect anything else? I would like to see real statistical evidence that there has been any improvement, and I would go through it with a very fine tooth comb! I would need all the original data including that which was discarded in the final result, the statistical methods used and the results claimed, and at the end of that I think it likely that the result is not significant, simply because the sample size will be too small and the overall amount of data on safety, tiny.
We shall see what happens next, but my experience of partP contractors has been very bad to awful, but we will wait in expectation.

-------------------------
David
CEng etc, don't ask, its a result not a question!
 28 June 2012 06:12 AM
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Jaymack

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Originally posted by: davezawadi
We shall see what happens next, but my experience of partP contractors has been very bad to awful, but we will wait in expectation.

Are you not in N.I.? I have comparison with hands on experience in England and Scotland. Part P needs working on, but it is much preferable to have some mandatory control of those working in domestic installations, rather than the free for all in Scotland, where the criteria for selection is usually ........ price!

Regards
 28 June 2012 09:20 AM
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daveparry1

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Agreed Jaymack, some control has to better than none at all!

Dave.
 28 June 2012 09:37 AM
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Parsley

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In my view what a waste of time and money. The only winners are the scheme provider's and the training centre's offering part P courses to people you shouldn't be touching electrical installations in the first place. And now the approved scheme contractors are expected to fill in for the local BC. Wasn't the part P intended to increase domestic electrical safety.

But what should we expect when meter operators won't even sign up to checking the earthing arrangements when replacing their meters, as their operatives aren't competent to carry out the inspection/test. (see page 10 ESC summer switched on).

Regards
 28 June 2012 09:37 AM
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BigRed

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I worry when they recommend rcd's everywhere for landlords. Registered sparks? what on, a part p domestic course? I'd rather have someone who is properly qualified and knows what they are talking about rather than someone who can pay their cash to a scheme to give themselves credability.
The question is, Do rcd's truely make the installation safe, or do they bring in complacency in thinking everything is safe as it has an RCD?
 28 June 2012 10:08 AM
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rocknroll

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Just to point out that the select committee report does go back a bit but they are right Part P is not going to be abolished but how it is going to change has not been revealed yet as the two following points are still under consideration.

1. Extending the range of non-notifiable jobs that do not need to be inspected by the local authority.

The only definite notifiable jobs at the moment are zones 0,1,2 in a bathroom and rewires and refurbishments, the latter two only because they involve other parts of the building regulations, the issue of kitchens, consumer unit changes and outdoors is still under discussion, the problem with kitchens is the evidence shows that 99.9% of incidents in that area are not electricity related, burns, scalds, serious cuts, head injuries from open cupboards and the case of children worktop heights, broken bones from slips and falls from chairs and the favourite, poisoning from everyday cleaning materials and chemicals.

2. Allowing DIYers and installers with no test equipment and experience to employ the services of a 'qualified electrician' to test and certificate notifiable work as an alternative to using the services of the LABC.

Please note that the term 'qualified electrician' does not infer someone who is registered with a CPS but in the governments view the definition as outlined in the IEE wiring regs, one of the reasons for this is the membership is dropping very rapidly due to the economy and now down to around 33% so the majority has to be a consideration to stem the increasing flow of notifiable jobs not being notified, the estimates at the moment are that around 250,000 notifiable jobs are not being notified and before the 'we want to be registered like the gas boys' brigade emerge the number of illegal gas installations is nearly double that figure.

The estimates were that around the end of July some information may come to light but we are now running into a period where a lot of people will not be in the capitol for around 6 to 8 weeks, either working from home or in my case a few days each week at one of our secure units within the Cambridge campus so there may be some delays.

regards

-------------------------
"Take nothing but a picture,
leave nothing but footprints!"
-------------------------
"Oh! The drama of it all."
-------------------------
"You can throw all the philosophy you like at the problem, but at the end of the day it's just basic electrical theory!"
-------------------------

Edited: 28 June 2012 at 10:16 AM by rocknroll
 28 June 2012 11:53 AM
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davezawadi

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Yes Jaymack I live in NI but go all over the place. I admit that I tend to see installations with problems with the quality of work carried out, and not a fair cross section. However I rarely see a very good one, even in installations which are not in trouble in some way.

R&Rs figures just show that regulation like this doesn't work at all, but even without controls the accident rate is virtually zero, even in the supposedly tightly regulated gas industry.

I had a meeting with an electrician the other day which was instructive. His work was rubbish but he was in a scheme (NICEIC). His excuse was that it took too long to do the install properly, to test the installation at all, and seemed to think that he was fine! I found over 30 defects in a simple domestic which he was repairing, and some in the existing wiring (although he had changed the CU) were seriously dangerous including exposed live conductors. So much for any kind of responsibility!

So partP seems to just increase costs without any measurable result, so should be scrapped.

-------------------------
David
CEng etc, don't ask, its a result not a question!
 28 June 2012 12:37 PM
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alancapon

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Perhaps the reason that Part P has not worked as well as it could in the UK, is because nobody has the will to make it work. . . .

- The local authorities do not seem to have the will (or perhaps the money) for enforcement
- The majority of electricians who see bad workmanship would prefer to charge the customer to put the problems right.
- The majority of complaints by those that understand what they see do not follow the laid down complaints procedure.
- The Electricity Supply Industry has been fragmented and reduced in size to the extent that they choose to look the other way when seals are tampered with and no longer attend to reconnect new consumer units.

Just an opinion . . . .


Regards,

Alan.
 28 June 2012 04:38 PM
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Erictrician

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Alan

Do not give up. After 30 years in my house with no seal on my cut out I have just been fitted with a new meter. As the "network providers operative" had to pull the cut-out fuse he fitted a new seal and I am now legal and can sleep at nights.
Pity about the Senior TT this year.

Eric
 28 June 2012 09:25 PM
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mikejumper

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Originally posted by: Erictrician
Alan
Do not give up. After 30 years in my house with no seal on my cut out I have just been fitted with a new meter. As the "network providers operative" had to pull the cut-out fuse he fitted a new seal and I am now legal and can sleep at nights.
Eric

Yes, but have you still got the old rewireable fuses that are likely to cause a fire?
 28 June 2012 09:29 PM
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mikejumper

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Originally posted by: alancapon

The Electricity Safety Council has welcomed the report by the Communities and Local Government Select Committee which has come out in favour of retaining Part P of the Building Regulations largely in their current form.

See page 13 of Summer 2012 Switched On magazine for the article.

Regards,

Alan.

So a fully independent and unbiased report then.
Statistics

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