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Topic Title: This could have been you or me! Electrical preventable "accident"
Topic Summary: All of this happened, because I wasn’t wearing my safety gear.
Created On: 12 June 2012 08:55 AM
Status: Post and Reply
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 14 June 2012 07:03 AM
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tomgunn

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Hahahaha... You know wot? I was thinking the same thing! I have too many worries going on in my head, ( probably wearing too many hard hats... haha! ), ... thats why I am up early.

Look.. the problem is that we now live in a nanny state... too much you see... what is required is for us to think things through ourselves... we dont need people who have never been on a building site to lay down laws for us... when I were a lad... well... it was safe... no really! Apart from the occasional crane falling over I didn't see anything wrong... AND... we had ladders on site too! I told, last year, that I was on a site where ladders were banned! I had to use part os some ali scaffold to get into lofts on a new site.. over the years I have been asked to check out other sparks works as I was seen to be a good electrician and one of these was on a site run by Balfour Beatty.... so I am trusted!

Anyways... the bottom line I would like to make is give me the decision as to whether I want to wear a hard hat or not and if you have poor eye site then don't fly planes or work on building sites and if you look around north London you will see lots of foreign workers on individual works working on very bad sites... some illegal workers as well!

And could I ask again... where do you think that I am wrong? In asking not to wear a hard hat perchance? Ah... humbugs to you! Have a nice day now!!

Anyways... I'm orf to work!

regards...

Tom

-------------------------
Tom .... ( The TERMINATOR ).

handyTRADESMAN ... haha

Castle Builders

Why did Nick Clegg cross the road? Because he said he wouldn't!

I can resist anything..... except temptation! ( Karl Gunn ).
 14 June 2012 07:16 AM
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MrP

Posts: 835
Joined: 24 March 2006

Tom
Be safe remember the old adage
What Tazan said to Jane
.........
.........
..........
.........



Be careful it's a jungle out there
MrP
 14 June 2012 08:49 AM
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OMS

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Originally posted by: tomgunn

Hahahaha... You know wot? I was thinking the same thing! I have too many worries going on in my head, ( probably wearing too many hard hats... haha! ), ... thats why I am up early.


Look.. the problem is that we now live in a nanny state... too much you see... what is required is for us to think things through ourselves... we dont need people who have never been on a building site to lay down laws for us... when I were a lad... well... it was safe... no really!

Was it Tom ?, i guess we've been in similar places you and I - with all the old suspects, (No good Baileys, Drakes, Hayden Young, Balfours, Crown House etc etc), - and i saw my first construction death aged 17 - big steelworks and inexperienced kids playing with big boys toys is a surefire disaster in the making. I saw or know of directly several more deaths by the time I was in my early twenties.

I've been on plenty of construction sites, I do know what I'm doing and when you put all the macho ***** to one side, construction safety is simply down to sending all the guys home, not just some of the time, but every night.




Apart from the occasional crane falling over I didn't see anything wrong... AND... we had ladders on site too!

You were lucky then - go and look at some simple stats for construction deaths - pro rata, only farming is more hazardous - these were real guys, with real friends and families, who are really dead - sometimes in horrible circumstances.

I told, last year, that I was on a site where ladders were banned! I had to use part os some ali scaffold to get into lofts on a new site.. over the years I have been asked to check out other sparks works as I was seen to be a good electrician and one of these was on a site run by Balfour Beatty.... so I am trusted!

You may well be trusted as a spark Tom, trouble is we come from an era where construction safety wasn't high on the agenda, we believed the macho crap about us being rough, tough destruction workers - and we believed we were bloody invincible - it was only the faceless idiots who got killed - until it happened a bit closer to you of course, and then it was the bloody companies fault - never ours.

Anyways... the bottom line I would like to make is give me the decision as to whether I want to wear a hard hat or not and if you have poor eye site then don't fly planes or work on building sites and if you look around north London you will see lots of foreign workers on individual works working on very bad sites... some illegal workers as well!

Two different issues there Tom - it's not just you that gets affected by your "choice" not to wear a hard hat - the guy next to you still has to live with the sight of you bleeding from the ear and you fitting on the floor when you get a crack from the cherry picker boom, guys will lose money when the site shuts down, we all have to get our dark suits dry cleaned and take a half day off, the contractor finds it difficult to win more work, some bugger has to sweep up after you and it places an extra burden on the NHS which diverts resources from people who are sick or ill through no fault of thier own.

as for the foreign labour, well i guess that tells you something - the people employing them don't give a ***** - whay would they worry about you either - safety is everyones responsibility, it's just these poor ***** have no choice - you do, and you want to throw it away. Disrespectful to those guys who faought long and hard to get safety onto the agenda - and those who've gone before us because no one listened



And could I ask again... where do you think that I am wrong? In asking not to wear a hard hat perchance? Ah... humbugs to you! Have a nice day now!!

LoL - see above, but just my opinion


Anyways... I'm orf to work!

Stay safe then


regards...



Tom


regards

OMS

-------------------------
Failure is always an option
 14 June 2012 08:55 AM
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OMS

Posts: 19549
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A little something to think about:

I could have saved a life that day,
But I choose to look the other way,
It wasn't that I didn't care,
I had the time, and I was there.

But I didn't want to seem a fool,
Or argue a safety rule.
I knew he'd done the job before,
If I called it wrong, he might get sore.

The chances didn't seem that bad,
I've done the same, he knew I had.
So I shook my head and walked on by,
He knew the risks as well as I.

He took the chance, I closed an eye,
And with that act, I let him die.
I could have saved a life that day,
But I choose to look the other way.

Now every time I see his wife,
I know I should have saved his life.
That guilt is something I must bear,
But it isn't something that you share.

If you see a risk that others take,
That puts their health or life at stake.
The question asked, or thing you say,
Could have them live another day.

If you see a risk and walk away,
Then I hope you never have to say,
I could have saved a life that day,
But I chose to look the other way.



Regards

OMS

-------------------------
Failure is always an option
 14 June 2012 09:25 AM
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BigRed

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Oms, with your permission, would like to copy and print that poem for my students
Dave
 14 June 2012 09:52 AM
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OMS

Posts: 19549
Joined: 23 March 2004

It's not mine, it's in the public domain - i just keep a copy for when I'm doing my "other" job.

I had copies printed and laminated and pinned to the wall above every urinal in the site toilets along with a colour chart so you could check if you were dehydrated or worse. i [put copies above the hydroboils so it was seen when people were making a brew. I hoped it was the last thing they read before going back on site so it stayed in the mind.

I caused it bit of gossip and several people thought i was a health and safety nutter, but i can live with that, gossip is good because at least the guys are talking about safety, thier safety - and quietly they began to realise that I wasn't a H&S nutter, I was on thier side, I'd been in thier shoes, and that we should all be focused on safety.

I know the problems, principally because in a previous life I used to run around in big boots and overalls with a hard hat covered in crappy stickers - getting told what to do by a suit in clean Hi Viz and a new white safety helmet immediatly triggers the mind set of "***** Off" - I'm a tradesman, I've been doing this job for ages in the muck and bullets so p**s off back to your office and let me alone.

So feel free to use it as you wish - if it sets a new generation of people off with safety embedded in what they do, then happy days

Regards

OMS

-------------------------
Failure is always an option
 14 June 2012 02:05 PM
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Paradigm

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Warning long & rambling

Dear Tom

Have been following this thread with interest, especially your comments and I feel the need to respond to a couple of your points.

I can see from your posts that you are a big old bad, rough & tough rooster and I have met plenty like you, in fact, I bought in to that very same mentality in my younger years, probably a mixture of too much testosterone and immaturity but that was then and another life.

And I have heard countless times big tough guys tell others that they are being wimpy, there was a thread on here recently about getting to some lights in a church and some real macho posturing came on with certain people implying that the people who were worried about this " should be wearing high heels" in other words, they were being women


But what the "tough guys" really don't get and OMS touched on this, is the impact their "freedom of choice" can have on others.

You bought up seatbelts in your initial post with the wonderful gem of wisdom

"The only reason it is law is so the government can make money out of fines"

We often do "What if" scenarios on this forum, so here is one for you.

What if this happened?

Consider a family, Mum & Dad have separated, and there are 4 kids, aged say 24, 20, 12 & 11.

The worst horrible thing happens and the eldest son is found dead on the sofa one spring morning, he caused his own death through misadventure, he made a choice against the laws of this land (probably thought they were interfering bunch of nanny do-gooders, bit like you really) and the consequence was his death.

Do you think his parents , surviving siblings, relatives & friends were consoled by the fact that " at least he wasn't a wimp"

Do you think they were proud that he lived life to the full and that the future that they had was gone?

Do you think his Fiancee whom he was going to marry was comforted by the fact that he was gone through not listening to "do gooders" and the children that they planned to have were but a distant memory


mmmmmmm!! thats happens all the time I hear you say but lets go a bit deeper

But WHAT IF this now happened.

The family started to rebuild their life, the three surviving kids were devastated as the older brother was so loved but with support from their friends and relatives they started to pick up the pieces and just as it was coming up to six months after the oldest sons death, the second eldest, who was a big & burly tough guy, went out for an evening in a fast car with a friend, he didn't wear a seatbelt, his own words " seatbelts are for wimps" (sound familiar Tom).

And he crashed into a tree and because he wasn't wearing a seatbelt, he impacted with the steering wheel and that ruptured the main artery from his heart and he died within minutes. His passenger survived because he was wearing his seatbelt, he had the good sense to listen to people and wasn't stupid enough to buy into the macho ***** that is so prevalent amongst the young & ignorant.

Did the father, when he was awoken by the police at four in the morning to be informed that another son was dead, proud that his son was a "real man who made free personal decisions"

and when the father had to ring his ex wife who for arguments sake "had gone on holiday to get over the death of her first born, did he tell her it was ok as their son was doing what he wanted.

and then the father had to tell the two youngest that another brother was dead, did he soften the blow with the fact that "at least he wasn't a wimp"


mmmmm, I wonder, after all its only a "what if" scenario Tom and things don't happen like that in real life but I would imagine that IF (that word Tom) it did, the aftermath of someone making a flippant decision about wearing a seatbelt would be huge, it would affect so many people and the damage caused would be massive.

Maybe that father would "always" put a seatbelt on after these events, or a hard hat as he knows the consequences of that decision are normally not for that person to deal with but the loved ones who are left behind and have to pick up the pieces and he wouldn't want any more emotional harm to come to the people he loved through his own blind ignorance or pig headedness.


Nick

-------------------------
"be careful of what you write"
 15 June 2012 01:19 PM
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Pactrol

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Hi

Im curious as to what sort of phase rotation meter is so full of carbon to do that
 16 June 2012 10:05 AM
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tomgunn

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Originally posted by: OMS

A little something to think about:



I could have saved a life that day,

But I choose to look the other way,

It wasn't that I didn't care,

I had the time, and I was there.



But I didn't want to seem a fool,

Or argue a safety rule.

I knew he'd done the job before,

If I called it wrong, he might get sore.



The chances didn't seem that bad,

I've done the same, he knew I had.

So I shook my head and walked on by,

He knew the risks as well as I.



He took the chance, I closed an eye,

And with that act, I let him die.

I could have saved a life that day,

But I choose to look the other way.



Now every time I see his wife,

I know I should have saved his life.

That guilt is something I must bear,

But it isn't something that you share.



If you see a risk that others take,

That puts their health or life at stake.

The question asked, or thing you say,

Could have them live another day.



If you see a risk and walk away,

Then I hope you never have to say,

I could have saved a life that day,

But I chose to look the other way.







Regards



OMS


Dear OMS...

Yes I am sure that we have been on similar sites... but as far as my experience goes... well nothing really... havent seen any accidents... certainly no deaths, other than the crane man in the late 80's in Putney and I was off site that day. I feel that we can get clouded memories from the past but I still feel that it was safe back there.

"You may well be trusted as a spark Tom, trouble is we come from an era where construction safety wasn't high on the agenda, we believed the macho crap about us being rough, tough destruction workers - and we believed we were bloody invincible - it was only the faceless idiots who got killed - until it happened a bit closer to you of course, and then it was the bloody companies fault - never ours."

In all honesty OMS I have never had a 'macho' inclination... ok I kicked some ones door in once and beat him up and spent 8 hours in the cells at Sutton police station... had a few fights with other sparks on site, one was a foreman, punched a hole in a door when working for Drakes on a large site off of the Old Kent Road, ( that was funny!!!! ), but I am NOT a macho person... if you knew me you'd always hear me singing, badly, and always up for a larf and a joke... I think thats why people sometimes thought that I was a soft touch or soft in the head... but I'm not... I too want to go home all in one piece... but I don't need anyone to tell me to wear a dopey hard hat... all I ask is to be given the opportunity if I want to wear this cumbersome item or not! I am still shocked at some poor safety onsite such as loose barriers and rubbish lying around etc.

"Two different issues there Tom - it's not just you that gets affected by your "choice" not to wear a hard hat - the guy next to you still has to live with the sight of you bleeding from the ear and you fitting on the floor when you get a crack from the cherry picker boom, guys will lose money when the site shuts down, we all have to get our dark suits dry cleaned and take a half day off, the contractor finds it difficult to win more work, some bugger has to sweep up after you and it places an extra burden on the NHS which diverts resources from people who are sick or ill through no fault of their own."

If you don't want to have an accident then its best to stay in bed all day... whatever 'they' do and whatever 'they' interfere with there will always be accidents... it really doesn't matter what you put in place or what extremes you go to... sadly this will always be the case... and as far as the NHS is concerned I think that the current Conservatives are making sure that this is in decline!

I actually value your opinion... you usually make sense... and I agree safety is required on site but the more that these 'nanny' types get involved the worse things will get take, for example, the people going around old industrial works telling the owners that if they don't change their equipment, that they have used since the dawn of time, then will have to shut down the works!

Careful as you cross the road to work OMS!! Don't wanna waste the time of the NHS with another road accident! Remember... you're not as spritely as you used to be when you were just a lad! Hahahahahaha!!

Have a nice day now!

regards...

Tom

-------------------------
Tom .... ( The TERMINATOR ).

handyTRADESMAN ... haha

Castle Builders

Why did Nick Clegg cross the road? Because he said he wouldn't!

I can resist anything..... except temptation! ( Karl Gunn ).

Edited: 16 June 2012 at 10:36 AM by tomgunn
 16 June 2012 10:18 AM
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daveparry1

Posts: 6153
Joined: 04 July 2007

All of this happened to me, because I wasn't wearing my safety gear.
-------------------------------
No it didn't, it happened because you were using the wrong bl**dy test equipment!!

Agreed Tom, the more we try to protect people from their own carelesness (stupidity in many cases) the less they will bother to think for themselves,

Dave.
 16 June 2012 10:32 AM
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tomgunn

Posts: 3217
Joined: 25 May 2005

Originally posted by: Paradigm

Warning long & rambling



Dear Tom



Have been following this thread with interest, especially your comments and I feel the need to respond to a couple of your points.



I can see from your posts that you are a big old bad, rough & tough rooster and I have met plenty like you, in fact, I bought in to that very same mentality in my younger years, probably a mixture of too much testosterone and immaturity but that was then and another life.



And I have heard countless times big tough guys tell others that they are being wimpy, there was a thread on here recently about getting to some lights in a church and some real macho posturing came on with certain people implying that the people who were worried about this " should be wearing high heels" in other words, they were being women





But what the "tough guys" really don't get and OMS touched on this, is the impact their "freedom of choice" can have on others.



You bought up seatbelts in your initial post with the wonderful gem of wisdom



"The only reason it is law is so the government can make money out of fines"



We often do "What if" scenarios on this forum, so here is one for you.



What if this happened?



Consider a family, Mum & Dad have separated, and there are 4 kids, aged say 24, 20, 12 & 11.



The worst horrible thing happens and the eldest son is found dead on the sofa one spring morning, he caused his own death through misadventure, he made a choice against the laws of this land (probably thought they were interfering bunch of nanny do-gooders, bit like you really) and the consequence was his death.



Do you think his parents , surviving siblings, relatives & friends were consoled by the fact that " at least he wasn't a wimp"



Do you think they were proud that he lived life to the full and that the future that they had was gone?



Do you think his Fiancee whom he was going to marry was comforted by the fact that he was gone through not listening to "do gooders" and the children that they planned to have were but a distant memory





mmmmmmm!! thats happens all the time I hear you say but lets go a bit deeper



But WHAT IF this now happened.



The family started to rebuild their life, the three surviving kids were devastated as the older brother was so loved but with support from their friends and relatives they started to pick up the pieces and just as it was coming up to six months after the oldest sons death, the second eldest, who was a big & burly tough guy, went out for an evening in a fast car with a friend, he didn't wear a seatbelt, his own words " seatbelts are for wimps" (sound familiar Tom).



And he crashed into a tree and because he wasn't wearing a seatbelt, he impacted with the steering wheel and that ruptured the main artery from his heart and he died within minutes. His passenger survived because he was wearing his seatbelt, he had the good sense to listen to people and wasn't stupid enough to buy into the macho ***** that is so prevalent amongst the young & ignorant.



Did the father, when he was awoken by the police at four in the morning to be informed that another son was dead, proud that his son was a "real man who made free personal decisions"



and when the father had to ring his ex wife who for arguments sake "had gone on holiday to get over the death of her first born, did he tell her it was ok as their son was doing what he wanted.



and then the father had to tell the two youngest that another brother was dead, did he soften the blow with the fact that "at least he wasn't a wimp"





mmmmm, I wonder, after all its only a "what if" scenario Tom and things don't happen like that in real life but I would imagine that IF (that word Tom) it did, the aftermath of someone making a flippant decision about wearing a seatbelt would be huge, it would affect so many people and the damage caused would be massive.



Maybe that father would "always" put a seatbelt on after these events, or a hard hat as he knows the consequences of that decision are normally not for that person to deal with but the loved ones who are left behind and have to pick up the pieces and he wouldn't want any more emotional harm to come to the people he loved through his own blind ignorance or pig headedness.





Nick


Dear Nick....

Hahaha... you see... you don't even know me... you haven't got a clue as to how my mind works and as far as 'testosterone' goes... well I had to laugh at that!

I can see from your posts that you are a big old bad, rough & tough rooster and I have met plenty like you, in fact, I bought in to that very same mentality in my younger years, probably a mixture of too much testosterone and immaturity but that was then and another life.

Honestly, I have never suffered from being a 'big old bad, rough & tough rooster' hahaha... and Nicholas... please get your 'quotes' correct. I never said that wearing a seatbelt was seen as being a 'wimp'... do please read my post again... haha! All my life I have always been a happy lad... always very helpful and reliable

As far as your scenario about the family goes is plausible... this could have happened in your life, I hope not, and it happens all of the time... look... when my son pops home, and when he lived here, I would always say to him to put his seatbelt on... and he'd laugh at me.. always and every time... as far as I am concerned I would glue the bloody thing on him... I would be devastated if anything happened to him while driving or other!!!! same applies to my daughter and granddaughter so I am not a flippant person... BUT... if they want to drive without a seatbelt then thats up to them... and when I see the police shows on the telly where some young s*!t is driving like a loon and then crash into some law abiding person then it makes my blood boil and as far as I am concerned they should be locked up for life, or put to sleep. You can derive any scenario you want to... I personally have several real ones in the real world to contend with... but we wont go there shall we?

You can come up with all the ideas of what IF or whatever... accidents will ALWAYS happen... if I were stupid enough to drive a motorbike then I would wear a crash helmet no Ifs BUTs or MAY BEs!!!!!! I ALWAYS wear a seatbelt and please do check my post as to seatbelts and 'wimps' because it doesnt exist in the post.

Anyways... gots lots to do... be careful out there! And wear your seatbelts / crash helmets... BUT... if some choose not to wear them then thats up to them!!!! And remember this too... you only have a few lifes to live... so live them all!!

Regards.... Tom

-------------------------
Tom .... ( The TERMINATOR ).

handyTRADESMAN ... haha

Castle Builders

Why did Nick Clegg cross the road? Because he said he wouldn't!

I can resist anything..... except temptation! ( Karl Gunn ).

Edited: 16 June 2012 at 10:40 AM by tomgunn
 16 June 2012 11:56 AM
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Paradigm

Posts: 700
Joined: 10 September 2010

Hey Tom, or would you prefer Thomas as we seem to be using proper name forms now.

No desire to make you change your opinion, after all it is just that isn't it, an opinion, just like my view on this is just my opinion.

Our life experiences change our opinions and for you to change yours, well, that would take something bloody awful and I certainly wouldn't wish that on anyone.

Your initial post came across all macho and if that wasn't your intention, which I am starting to think it wasn't, well maybe you should have worded it better, I wasn't the only person on here to pick you up on that but again, it doesn't really matter.

As for me quoting you, well, the only direct quote I gave you was about the seatbelt laws, the rest were what I took as the implied reasoning of your initial post, again, maybe you should have worded it better.

You say "accidents do happen", and you are right but when one lives with the aftermath of a so easily avoided accident, well those words become meaningless and the old adage "talk is cheap" comes to mind.

I wish you well in your life & your loved ones and genuinely hope they stay safe & live long and happy lives.

All the Best

Nick (olas)

-------------------------
"be careful of what you write"
 16 June 2012 01:07 PM
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tomgunn

Posts: 3217
Joined: 25 May 2005

Originally posted by: Paradigm

Our life experiences change our opinions and for you to change yours, well, that would take something bloody awful and I certainly wouldn't wish that on anyone.

All the Best

Nick (olas)




Hello Nick, ( better? ), dont get 'touchy'!!!!! Relaxxxxxxx! You quoted me as saying 'seat belts are for wimps'... not true! Me 'macho'? NEVER!!! Just that if anyone doesnt want to wear them, daft as it may be, then don't force them... it should be their choice! Would you go around the streets and walk up to anyone smoking and say... 'STOP! Do you know that smoking KILLS!!!! You WILL die!!!'? Of course not... its their 'choice' and good luck to anyone that wants to... I do and I have many people coming to me to stop smoking... I give them my individual attention... get paid at the end ... and stop most of them from smoking ever again... and when they go... I have yet another cigarette... you see Nick... its my 'choice'! The only problem with this is that I do sometimes feel a little guilty, after they leave here, but there again... guilt can kill you!!

And 'yes' to the item 'quoted' above... yes I have had terrible things happen in my life... one that some of you know about... so I have no intention of boring anyone with it / them again!! So you see Nick, ( and the reason why I replied with 'Nicholas' was not meant to be seen as anything bad... I do this to lots of people... so don't put up any 'guards' please!! ).

I believe that both my grammar and the way that I have with 'words' is quite good... maybe not... who cares? And I feel that when I do post I try to make as sure as I can that its all spelt correctly!

Anyways...., ( Nick ), the reason why I don't join in loooong posts is that we / me / I. Can get too involved with them... thats why I always give them a body swerve these days as this makes life somewhat simpler... as I don't really relish the idea of getting into looong drawn out replies that may leave some bad feelings... I neither want to upset anyone nor will I get into a slanging match on any forum that I belong... this is what I have learnt from this forum... one of my lives is too short for this! ( I think I'm on number 3 at the mo ).

So; to clarify... I am not a 'macho' person so now I hope you and the others understand me on this point...

Look Nick... have a great life... and I too wish you well!

regards...

Tommy

-------------------------
Tom .... ( The TERMINATOR ).

handyTRADESMAN ... haha

Castle Builders

Why did Nick Clegg cross the road? Because he said he wouldn't!

I can resist anything..... except temptation! ( Karl Gunn ).
 16 June 2012 10:32 PM
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dlane

Posts: 690
Joined: 28 September 2007

Originally posted by: Pactrol

Hi

Im curious as to what sort of phase rotation meter is so full of carbon to do that


If I have understood the report correctly the electrician was using a 'motor rotation meter' and not a 'phase rotation meter'.

A motor rotation meter is a battery powered instrument that is clipped onto motor terminals whilst the motor is isolated and will identify how the 3 phase should be connected to the motor to obtain the desired direction of rotation. I have never seen one used in the UK but they are common place in America.

The modern ones such as the Di-LOG DL9020 or Aemc PMR-1 are combined motor and phase rotation meters and can withstand being connected onto live circuits but it seems that the electrician was using an older variety that was not protected against use on live circuits.

The second thing to note from the description of the incident is that the fault was initially a single phase fault that propogated into a 3 phase fault and less conductive debris would be needed to create a single phase fault. This is backed up by the IEEE1584 committee that investigated arc fault incidents and found that a good proportion of them were instigated as single phase faults that produced enough ionised air to allow the fault to develop into a 3 phase fault.

I too have followed the comments on this topic and it makes me raise a couple of questions to those who seem to disagree with mandatory health and safety rules;

How do those people who are less experienced make an informed decision on whether or not to wear the PPE or follow the safety rule? Surely it is better for them to rely on the collective experience of those that have established the rules based on a much wider set of experiences?

Secondly how do you cater for someone who makes a mistake? We are all capable of making them, the electrician in the incident made a series of mistakes which is the classic accident scenario but a lot of health and safety rules are put in place to try and break that chain of mistakes and prevent the injury or accident occurring.

I understand that people may want to make their own decisions which is probably going to be based on their own experiences but isn't there a larger picture here to take into consideration?

One final comment, for me the root cause of that accident is probably down to the live working culture of American electricians and the way in which that electrician had probably been trained to do the job and not down to his mistake of using an incorrect meter or not wearing his PPE.

Kind regards

Donald Lane
 17 June 2012 02:13 AM
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ebee

Posts: 5672
Joined: 02 December 2004

Well put Donald

OMS - I think that little poem should be part of any exam we take - you learn that poem off by heart and recite it or fail the exam in it`s entirety !

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Regards,
Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
 17 June 2012 05:20 PM
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Phillron

Posts: 1168
Joined: 18 January 2007

Originally posted by: tomgunn





The point I am making is that for over 40 years on site I have had no problems other than wearing these stupid hats and hi viz jackets, only for the past year or so on very few occasions.

. same as when I am wearing a hard hat I am conscious of this stupid thing balancing on my head and when will I bump into something else and will it fall off again when I am bending over to pull some cables through!


and give me the right to be able to judge if I want to wear a hard hat or not.

regards...



Tom


I am 100% in agreement
The choice should be mine,like Tom I have been personally responsible and successful at looking after my own safety
I
Give too much flimsy protection to the average Joe and it removes that personal responsibility which can endanger even more lives by giving them a false sense of security

It amuses me to see Politicians for example, standing in the middle of the Millennium stadium (when construction was near as damn it completed).togged out in Hard hat high vis and Goggles with only falling aircraft has a possible danger

These people. on the whole. have no experience of the lives of the working man,they are the same people who help draft these daft laws

Step ladders being banned on site,knives becoming too dangerous to use,whatever next,individual reinforced bubbles
 17 June 2012 06:13 PM
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daveparry1

Posts: 6153
Joined: 04 July 2007

I agree fully Phillron,

Dave.
 17 June 2012 06:39 PM
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weirdbeard

Posts: 1495
Joined: 26 September 2011

Hi all, just been watching some interesting vids by photonicinduction on youtube, most of which would give the h+s gang heart attacks, from a link on diynots forum, thought Tom might like this one! (**contains swearing**)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXok6_BjhXM
 17 June 2012 08:44 PM
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peteTLM

Posts: 3138
Joined: 31 March 2005

The associated video on backup power from an inverter and deep cycle batteries was interesting.......

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Lack of planning on your part doesn't make it an emergency on mine....

Every man has to know his limitations- Dirty Harry
 17 June 2012 09:07 PM
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John Peckham

Posts: 7401
Joined: 23 April 2005

Nick

That was a tough message for you to write from the heart.


It is not until you see or experience these things and see how much heart ache they cause to so many people for so many years can you understand the pain of losing a young life.

Of course when you actively try to promote health and safety you are seen as a silly moaning old fool or a jobs worth.

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John Peckham

http://www.astutetechnicalservices.co.uk/

Edited: 17 June 2012 at 10:20 PM by John Peckham
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