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Topic Title: Bathroom lighting
Topic Summary: Baten lampholder
Created On: 01 May 2012 09:36 PM
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 01 May 2012 09:36 PM
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Avatar for ebee.
ebee

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Batten lampholder with H O Skirt in a bathroom outside the zones - No IP rating?

Looking at OSG page 82 table 8.1 says outside zones minimum IP rating of IPXXB or IP2X yet I can`t find this stipulation in section 701 of the Big Green Book.

Where is it stated?

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Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
 01 May 2012 10:07 PM
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antric2

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I think battens and pendants have an IP rating of 21 but I cant for the life of me remember where I have got this info from.
 01 May 2012 10:24 PM
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sparkiemike

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The IP2X requirement will come from a general requirement from 416.2.1
 01 May 2012 10:59 PM
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ebee

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Thanks I was thinking along those lines - being a requirement elsewhere.

. So a bathroom is no more onerous than anywhere else in this respect?

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Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
 02 May 2012 06:49 AM
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sparkiemike

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There is always 512.2.1 to allow you to exercise your own judgement
 02 May 2012 07:12 AM
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ebee

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I suppose that if a lamp is in the lampholder then IP 2X or XXB is maintained!

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Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
 02 May 2012 07:52 AM
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Legh

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I'm sure we have had this debate before. It's a question of whether we regard a bathroom location as being within its stated zones or whether we regard it has being defined by its physical boundary.

Electrically, it makes sense to limit the zones within the physical boundary but for anything else it would be regarded as a nonsense. The only exception is still socket outlets.

Battern holders with HMO skirts have been around for donkey's years, so I can't see how they can be any more dangerous now, unless we accept that ordinary persons have become more stupid and needs protection from from themselves.

Legh

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 02 May 2012 08:26 AM
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Jaymack

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Originally posted by: Legh
Electrically, it makes sense to limit the zones within the physical boundary but for anything else it would be regarded as a nonsense. The only exception is still socket outlets.

Not so, the nonsense would occur, if a batten holder was fitted to a ceiling in a bathroom, subject to near 100% humidity.

Battern holders with HMO skirts have been around for donkey's years, so I can't see how they can be any more dangerous now, unless we accept that ordinary persons have become more stupid and needs protection from from themselves.

This includes ordinary electricians it seems.

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 02 May 2012 08:42 AM
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Legh

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Not so, the nonsense would occur, if a batten holder was fitted to a ceiling in a bathroom, subject to near 100% humidity.


Oh, come off it. I can remember seeing these fittings in bathrooms where there was poor internal ventilation and to remove excess moisture you opened the window, causing maximum condensation. I have never known them to cause problems. Accept, of course, spoiling the aesthetics....

Legh

-------------------------
Why do we need Vernier Calipers when we have container ships?

http://www.leghrichardson.co.uk

"Science has overcome time and space. Well, Harvey has overcome not only time and space - but any objections."
 02 May 2012 09:09 AM
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Jaymack

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Originally posted by: Legh
Oh, come off it. I can remember seeing these fittings in bathrooms where there was poor internal ventilation and to remove excess moisture you opened the window, causing maximum condensation. I have never known them to cause problems. Accept, of course, spoiling the aesthetics....

For the source of maximum condensation, it would depend on the way the wind was blowing (if at all), for an opened window; or whether it was a cold bathroom in the first place Shirley. Maybe the fact that a window was opened, had alleviated the situation. It's not a case of whether you've had problems, would you install one now in a steamy environment ? Would you code this on an E.I.C.R.?

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 02 May 2012 10:14 AM
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Legh

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For the source of maximum condensation, it would depend on the way the wind was blowing


Lol, Shirley, a bad hair day

The protection is in the skirt .....she said.



Legh

-------------------------
Why do we need Vernier Calipers when we have container ships?

http://www.leghrichardson.co.uk

"Science has overcome time and space. Well, Harvey has overcome not only time and space - but any objections."
 02 May 2012 12:11 PM
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AJJewsbury

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. It's not a case of whether you've had problems

An exposed lampholder with nothing more than a deep (Home Office) skirt was what the regs demanded back in the 15th Ed, so there were literally millions done that way, with little ill effect.

I'd imagine that the heat from a filament lamp would stop condensation close to the lampholder anyway when the light was on (and it doesn't matter much when the lamp was off).

- Andy.
 02 May 2012 06:13 PM
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daveparry1

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There are still loads of those type of light fittings in bathrooms, not really a problem but I usually recommend they are changed if i'm working in the location or even doing a c/unit change etc. My favourite for bathrooms is the Mini-Pitza 16watt fitting, only about 16 quid so I often just include it in the price of tthe job,

Dave.
 02 May 2012 06:22 PM
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Jaymack

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Originally posted by: AJJewsbury
An exposed lampholder with nothing more than a deep (Home Office) skirt was what the regs demanded back in the 15th Ed, so there were literally millions done that way, with little ill effect.

How do you know there was little ill effect?

Regards
 02 May 2012 07:32 PM
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garyedin88

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As far as I'm led to believe a battenholder should be minimum 600mm from bath.
 04 May 2012 01:39 PM
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AJJewsbury

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How do you know there was little ill effect?

Well, they kept working. No piles of dead bodies in the streets. Lamp life wasn't noticeably reduced. Lampholders didn't seem to need replacing any more often than elsewhere in the house....
- Andy.
 04 May 2012 01:49 PM
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MPVaughan

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Is there not a safe version were the pins only become live when the lamp is inserted?
 04 May 2012 01:57 PM
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davezawadi

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Come on boys, there is nothing wrong with a batten holder outside the zones. Most people couldn't reach it anyway, even standing in the bath! The Home Office skirt makes getting the fingers in difficult, as it is designed to do.

Just live with it. A normal lamp in a holder is IP22 in most books.

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David
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 04 May 2012 03:01 PM
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Jaymack

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Originally posted by: AJJewsbury
Well, they kept working. No piles of dead bodies in the streets. Lamp life wasn't noticeably reduced. Lampholders didn't seem to need replacing any more often than elsewhere in the house....

So you are the official recorder of the notifications, for failures of batten holders then?, I don't think so You can only give a opinion!

Regards
 04 May 2012 03:06 PM
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Jaymack

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Originally posted by: davezawadi
Come on boys, there is nothing wrong with a batten holder outside the zones. Most people couldn't reach it anyway, even standing in the bath! The Home Office skirt makes getting the fingers in difficult, as it is designed to do.

That's not the main point here, batten holders are subject to condensation, and shorting of the terminals!

Regards
IET » Wiring and the regulations » Bathroom lighting

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