I can now agree with you,it has to go and probably its demise is imminent

You cant however, grumble about finally having to pay the fees or joining one of the schemes
Many of us have detested this part p fiasco since its inception,but still had to shoulder its cost for a useless idea, therefore you should be pleased you have had a free ride till now

as you will gather I am part P registered, however yesterday I went a house where a firm was installing bedroom furniture and installed a new double socket, which is on the same ring final circuit as the kitchen, also LED lights which are on the same radial circuit as the bathroom.

Now explain why I do not need to notify the work I did yesterday, however when I worked on the same ring final circuit in the kitchen two years ago I did.

Andy

With respect Andy, £200 for an A4 bit of paper and nothing else is terrible value for money.
I'm sure you wouldn't be happy paying £10 for a glass of wine in a pub because it's less than a bottle costing £20.

You were paying for a tick in the box to say that the work was carried out by a competent person and you got the tick, job done!

Andy

"they were more than happy with me just leaving the final certificate with the homeowner, and everything was fine."

"Ive never been in the wrong, as previously mentioned, the council have always been happy with myself just leaving the original certificate with the homeowner - this was right upto last year (2011).... now without warning... this! lol"

"and wouldnt surprise me if that was underhanded."

I wonder what the local scheme members thought of the LABC not applying the rules to everyone?

Regards

BOD

The thing is - most of the awful with I have seen done is by... 'part p' registered electricians... because although they have the 'paperwork' they (some) fail in the common sense/fundemental electrical knowledge department. Includes the use of fake cables, and fake MCB's. Yes I did correct many discrepancies, Yes I did leave new certificate(s) with the homeowner(s). No I did not go about naming and shaming.

Seems like too many people are leaving school and doing 6 week part p courses.

Officialdom is ruining this trade where common sense and proper knowledge once prevailed. If they want to reduce the risk of injury and/or death then I suggest they look at the fact more people die from stress related illnesses each year.

Officialdom - to be taken with a pinch of salt, but only if youre competent enough to do so :-)

-------------------------
From SMD's to 132kV... ive had a go!

Richard Talmage, LCGI EngTech TMIET

"From SMD's to 132kV... ive had a go!"

You will have Napit Professional asking if any of your qualifications are actually relevant to domestic installation work next or whether you are a distribution engineer who is "having a go"


Andy

Sega Mega Drives to electric fences...ive had a go!

Edited: 28 March 2012 at 09:48 PM by sparkingchip

Fully competent thankyou Andy. When I did my apprenticeship, 16th edition was our basic training. I have kept upto date ever since... and even implimented what came into the 1st amendment of 17th before it came in. Section 444 is one example. Its having tacit knowledge, something which is not recognised, but something which you cannot be taught. So im more than happy to fire away answers should anyone from the LABC question me... But I will definately be firing them back Their parking department doesnt like me anyway... because I always win the challenges to PCN's (pepipoo.com is a great site) Use the system to beat the system. I dont think NAPIT will be speaking to me as I have nothing to do with them. Unless I find another Part P cowboy.... but then would they understand fundemental issues or just stick to box ticking?

-------------------------
From SMD's to 132kV... ive had a go!

Richard Talmage, LCGI EngTech TMIET

Edited: 28 March 2012 at 10:34 PM by djrichiet

Richard, I agree with your Grr.

Various LABCs have been allowing your previous situation to exist for ages and you sound as though you are not a high risk at all. Something has happened within yours to change that. In this particular case can you not pay a retrospective notification fee and be done with it?

I have a meeting with My own LABC panel tomorrow. I'll ask them about thier views. Don't hold your breath though, this panel is a meeting for the sake of being seen to have a meeting.

My client with no Ze on his TT ( still, for those of you who are aware of that thread so I'm not a pratt any more ). Retired electrical engineer and an MIET without the T (or so he tells me). Might be one of the reasons for what is happening to you...my LABC accepts third party inspections from their preferred inspector. He tried to bargain with me for his 'certificate' today.... I am not a harsh inspector but I am sat here writing the list of code 1s. LABC don't know about it yet but if your area has had something similar then possibly they are standing down on flexibility over part P requirements as they are today. So sorry you are on the receiving end of it all.

Next time, tell your customer they are responsible for pre notifying the work, put it in a letter with a phone number and leave it to them.

Zs

-------------------------
'The desk is a dangerous place from which to view the world.'
John Le Carre

To those of us who have been obeying the 30MPH speed limit (and registering for Part p or otherwise paying for part p) and you who have not been obeying the 30MPH speed (and not paying for Part P) to now whinge about being now made to comply with the 30MPH speed limit and to pay for part p seems a bit ironic. If you are now made to cough up for the number of times you exceeded the speed limit in the past and skipped paying for part p in the past then that would be justice wouldn`t it?.

Were you ignorant of the law when you failed to notify correctly or did you deliberately set out to commit a criminal offence? (ignorance of the the law not being an excuse anyway!)

-------------------------
Regards,
Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik

Richie

Unfortunately it's the law however that does not mean that the law is correct or fare. Its clearly employment Discrimination and the law is an ass
Part P in concept was a move in the right direction how it is implemented is wrong

"give us a bag of cash and you can be in our gang"

It's a money making racket and sadly nothing to do with improving safety. There was a time when reputable contractors were proud to display the NICEIC/ECA logo and it meant something now badges are given away in lucky bags

I have recently had the misfortune to employ a part Pee er who made rudimentary mistakes on the documentation he produced so what faith in the testing report, ha ho but no problem he had paid his dues and was in the "gang" I gave him his bag of silver and I complied with building control and was cheaper than me submitting
The EIC he produced (he didn't do the work) with his badge and BC submission got me over the line. It had my address on; other similarities with the installation were vague
When they scrap Part P I bet there will be more unused test instruments on ebay than you can shake a stick at

MrP

and did you make the classic mistake of standing in a pub one night having had a few drinks announcing in a loud voice "part P? oh I don't have to pay any fees or be in a scheme, the council just accept my certificates" thus !"£$$%^& off some one else in the pub?

Who knows the trigger for this bit of enforcement by the council, you may have triggered it yourself, it could have been they thought you were doing a one off, then decided actually you are making a living out of it and should be treated the same as everyone else, we can only speculate.

No sympathy, but no hard feelings either!

Andy xx

"When they scrap Part P I bet there will be more unused test instruments on ebay than you can shake a stick at"

That statement in itself speaks volumes!

-------------------------
Regards,
Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik

I tthink you will find its "volumes" of incorrectly forms filled in and submitted

MrP

Yes there is one on the Gov e/petitions website

Hi djrichiet, I was just wondering if your past domestic customers had recieved any type of completion certificate from the labc following the reciept of your installation certificates?

From your 'lighter note' post I had a look at the charges in your area for notification of electrical work by a non-scheme registered installer and it seems that for a rewire in your local area, your customers will be charged over £250 more than in my local area for the same service!


Other labcs in my area base the charge for electrical work on a sliding scale depending on the cost of the proposed work, others do not publish their fees on-line but suggest that you contact them before starting works so they can give the best competitive price!

Also having a quick search round other areas for costs I found this web page : http://www.e-lindsey.gov.uk/Planning/building+control


Which says :


"Our service does not provide a guarantee of compliance or a quality control service. We may have inspected the work and issued a decision and completion certificate but this is not a guarantee or* compliance."

(*smelling pistake, should be of? )


There are no goal posts, the whole part p issue is a mess, always has been and looks set to get worse in the not too distant future!

I can understand both side of debate, and why some of us are so frustrated. But I believe there are some missing points.

1. If because of some financial motivation and conflict of interest the scheme providers do not follow the competency procedure check in a way they have to, it is not Part P problem.

2.  As all of us know,  Part P is not perfect, but definitely is better than no rule at all and it was/is successful RELATIVELY in improving safety and reducing fires caused by electrical faults.

3. Intention of producing Part P is to protect public and real electricians from the harm that can cause  by Cowboys and DIYers. The real and competent electrician who can be registered or non-registered should be happy if there is anything that can limit the range of cowboys activity.

4. To be competent in electricity does not necessary mean competency in building regulation. Friend of mine is GOD in industrial installations, anywhere I stock in a bad situation in commercial or  industrial I call him and he guide me through, most of the time just by phone. BUT he didn't know about part M and he doesn't know half of I know about approved document B. It doesn't make him incompetent but not enough competent to do domestic as I couldn't do some of the things I have done without his help.

Please try improve and correct what we have. Even bad law is better than no law.

Anyway that's what I think and  with respect to all other opinions.

Regards
Ramin

Ramin

"Even bad law is better than no law"

Before P there was a requirement

The current regulations there is requirement to install it correctly and produce documentation with cross reference to legal documentation so why do we need part p other than to sell badges

MrP

Think NAPIT do a just 8 scheme for this kind of thing...

They do. It was what I originally joined in 05 when Part P arrived.