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Topic Title: eicr,do landlords have to supply them?
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Created On: 19 March 2012 10:31 PM
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 19 March 2012 10:31 PM
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largelunchbox

Posts: 377
Joined: 06 July 2008

i do some work for an agent who manages several blocks of flats,they often ask me when its necessary for a property to be inspected. now i have given them the normal guidelines,ie 10 years,5 years for letting ect. but im sure there is not a mandatory law in force to make them have it done like the gas safety cert,. so 2 questions really.

1- can you confirm its not mandatory ?
2- there seems to be an opinion that it also is advised on change of tenancy or 5 years which ever the soonest ?

opinions please .
 19 March 2012 10:53 PM
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alanblaby

Posts: 405
Joined: 09 March 2012

No, you do not need any certification for a rented property.
However, the installation, and any appliances must be 'safe'. There is no definition of safe, so to err on the safe side, an EICR and PAT certificates would cover the Landlord.

Saying that, I have only ever been asked to do one report into the electrical installation of a rented house, and that was because the local Council were going to rent it.
There are a couple of links, and guidance here (remove the spaces, as I cannot leave a full link):
www .landlordzone.co.uk /electrical_safety. htm
 20 March 2012 12:25 AM
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sparkiemike

Posts: 1556
Joined: 24 January 2008

The ESC have some documents as well

http://www.esc.org.uk/stakehol...uidance-for-landlords/
 20 March 2012 06:32 AM
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Jaymack

Posts: 4799
Joined: 07 April 2004

Scotland is still part of the U.K. ........ for the present!

Quote from the link at the bottom of this post: -

All private landlords must register with their local authority to ensure that they are a "fit and proper person" to let property. It is an offence to let any house without being registered. From 31 August 2011 the maximum fine for operating as an unregistered landlord increases to £50,000.

Although the link from this following site, doesn't work on this forum, this extract from Annex 1 also refers - www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications - Legal obligation on landlords.

the landlord has a general duty to make sure that the electrical installations and appliances provided as part of the let are safe to use (Electrical Equipment (Safety) Regulations 1994)

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Top...landlords/registration
 20 March 2012 10:14 PM
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largelunchbox

Posts: 377
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hi,thx for that. but once cert has been issued is there then any doc which states how long to the next test ?
 21 March 2012 08:48 AM
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Pacific

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Joined: 29 January 2005

Its in the document
 21 March 2012 08:51 AM
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sonic

Posts: 30
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Change of Tenancy or it is up to the Engineer that in doing the test as to how long till the next inspection, as the property may be high maintenance due to the type of tennant or the state of accessories etc.
 21 March 2012 08:51 AM
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sonic

Posts: 30
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Change of Tenancy or it is up to the Engineer that in doing the test as to how long till the next inspection, as the property may be high maintenance due to the type of tennant or the state of accessories etc.
 18 July 2012 10:43 AM
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ickleant

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Joined: 05 July 2012

I found an article about this the other day it quite long but seems to hit the nail on the head.

Link removed/blog/p...y-advice-for-landlords

Edited: 18 July 2012 at 03:17 PM by ickleant
 18 July 2012 11:39 AM
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baldelectrician

Posts: 311
Joined: 11 June 2005

The problem in a nutshell;

If a landlord 'thinks' their electrics are safe then that's ok with the council (direct quote from landlord registration at my local East Ayrshire Council)

The problem and liability is with the landlord; it is up to the landlord to prove that they took all reasonable steps to ensure the electrical system and appliances were safe, they will need to show evidence of this if something untoward were to happen

So to sum up, the LL has two options

1. Have the place tested and have a system in place to verify the compotence of the person carrying out the test

2. Don't bother, keep your fingers crossed and hope for the best

As far as letting agents go- one of my agents gets the LL to sign a discalimer stating that the (agents) professional advice is to have an electrical check carried.
If the LL declines the advice they are going against the professional advice of the agent by not having the check carried out and assume all liability.

-------------------------
baldelectrician.com
 18 July 2012 11:51 AM
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daveparry1

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I do some work for a chap that has several flats and houses that he rents out via the local council and although they require a "certificate" (as they call it) they are quite happy with a visual report.. I use the niceic visual reporting forms but I do a bit more than what's required on the form, ie do a Ze and a few Zs's, also look inside a few sockets etc. I much prefer to do this than do a full eicr, less money earned of course but also a lot less bother I reckon!

Dave.
 18 July 2012 12:36 PM
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MrP

Posts: 857
Joined: 24 March 2006

With my landlords hat on the whole business of PAT testing appliances is a scam, if the circuit is designed, installed correctly has additional protection and the three year old appliance with a CE marking and molded plug is plugged into that circuit, its good enough for me. Reeds rains send me details each year, stating that I should use a proper electrician to get my property and the appliances tested at a rate of £x using scare tactics of death and fire and incorrect information about statuary requirements
I have recently had misfortune to use (as Reeds Rains would not accept my EICR as I am not a proper electrician) an Elecsa proper electrician recommended by Reeds Rains to get a new lease over the line, the paper work issued was incorrect a PIR not a EICR and the limited information enclosed incorrect, the proper Elcsa electrician didn't even have the nonce to copy the report pined next to the cu.
So is it any wonder landlords do not want to have any involvement with scams recommended by Estate agents only just surpassed by bankers with"professional" Electrical scam providers not far behind
It's a scam


MrP
 18 July 2012 01:21 PM
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ArthurHall

Posts: 737
Joined: 25 July 2008

I am a landlord and a time served electrician. I was also an electricity board instalation inspector, but that was back in the 14th edition days.
The first time I required a property to be tested I decided to do it properly and paid about £50 to a local firm. They managed to produce test certificate without getting the keys of the house!
Now a days I use the test sheet from the IET and do it myself. That way I know the property is safe for my tennents.
I am not certified to the 17th and I am not registered with any of the bodies, but I recon I could convince a judge I know enough about electrical safety.
BTW my main job is testing and commissioning HV substations
 18 July 2012 01:32 PM
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FizzleBang

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Joined: 05 January 2007

I'm with Mr.P.

As a landlord I have an interest in this. I also used to do much work for a number of letting agents.

I stopped working for letting agents and most landlords because they only wanted the piece of paper at the lowest possible rate.
It's all about vested interests I suppose. The electrical industry would love legislation to make regular inspections mandatory.
Sadly it isn't likely to be the competent and conscientious members of this forum doing the work.
It will be the drive by boys and big new companies specialising in that work who employ light weights on a low rate to do 5 reports a day.

All the legislation in the world won't improve the situation.

Unfortunately for the electrical industry, electrical installations in poor condition are not killing or injuring tenants in any noticeable numbers. In poor condition properties the tenant usually has much more important issues to address.
And in their ignorance they'll continue to use their defective appliances whatever condition the fixed wiring is in.

I've seen enough "electricians" PIR's round here to be sure that they'll not be getting their hands on my money any time soon.

-------------------------
To me, to you
 19 March 2014 08:19 PM
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sparkingchip

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Quote from http://www.napit.org.uk/newsStory.asp?id=245

"NAPIT, along with a number of other prominent bodies in the electrical industry, actively support the need to tighten up legislation on electrical safety in private rented accommodation. Annual gas safety checks are currently a legal requirement for landlords and electrical safety checks must be carried out every five years in Homes of Multiple Occupancy (HMOs) but other landlords are only bound by a vague requirement for household electrics to be maintained in a safe condition. We welcome Mr Thornton's recommendations to protect tenants from unsafe electrics by requiring a five yearly electrical safety check and urge the Government to act decisively to protect tenants and give landlords greater clarity when it comes to their obligations."
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