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Topic Title: MCS Accreditation
Topic Summary: Heat Measurement from ASHP for the Purpose of RHI next year
Created On: 17 December 2011 02:24 AM
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 17 December 2011 02:24 AM
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sbrown2

Posts: 97
Joined: 25 July 2008

After advice I had received on this forum, relating to finding a path off of shifts and maybe working for myself, I have finally gained MCS accreditation. My REAL assurance has been agreed and by Tuesday GEMSERVE should have me on the system. I/we have also been deemed competent in relation to the CPS schemes for multi trades.
Although I have paid up for solar photovoltaic and heat pumps I was only assessed for CPS and heat pumps.
Anyway my questions are:

1) Can anybody point me in the direction of how the heat energy will be measured?
2) How quickly will the RHPP funding be likely to run out? Now that we have been assessed on on heat pump for one property in a block of three we would like to commision the other two systems,
3) The RHPP is for domestic installations. But when a builder constructs properties I thought the installation would be deemed commercial. I am just trying to ascertain whether the builder can claim the RHPP or whether we commission the system when the new tennants buyers move into the property and they claim the RHPP.
4) Are a lot of these companies still wiring in the S and Y plans. I have used a small PLC and its made it easier to program in things such as controlling the tank element for legionella control. I am just looking at the most cost effective solutions relating to control.

Any help on the subject matter would be appreciated.

I am off shift soon and should be back in the land of the living by tomorrow evening.
 17 December 2011 06:49 PM
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sbrown2

Posts: 97
Joined: 25 July 2008

any assistance would now be appreciated!!!!!!
 17 December 2011 07:58 PM
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jcm256

Posts: 1841
Joined: 01 April 2006

Don't know the answer to your question, the only clue you can get is these statements below:


The full scheme is modelled on the feed-in tariff scheme for electricity generation technologies and will guarantee businesses or households payments based on how much renewable heat they generate.

From October 2012, residential systems will also receive payments for every unit of heat they generate under the UK government's Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI).

The RHI means that households will receive around £250 per year, which when added to the fuel savings represents a return on investment of between 7 and 8%.

RHI Payments come directly from the UK Government and for domestic properties are likely to be 18p per kW of heat generated.


Here is the list of main eligibility criteria:
Renewable energy systems installed after 15th Jul 2009 are eligible.

The installation should have been done by a MCS certified solar systems installer

The solar thermal system should use MCS certified equipments
How RHI works?
Once you install a solar thermal energy system, an estimate is made to determine the amount of heat energy you will produce and on the basis of this estimate, the tariff chart is used to pay you a fixed amount of money as incentive over a long period of time (20 years). The rate remains fixed for the entire period of time and there are plans to account for inflation too.

RHI tariffs:
For solar thermal energy systems that generate up to 45KW, the tariff is 18 pence/KWh.

For solar thermal energy systems that generate 45-500KW, the tariff is 17 pence/KWh.

As mentioned earlier, this tariff is fixed and the tariff lifetime in both cases is 20 years.

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http://www.energygrants.co.uk/...KeLjK0CFUJItAodBzEqnA
See also:

what the hell is green deal??

Solar thermal

Edited: 18 December 2011 at 06:34 PM by jcm256
 19 December 2011 07:50 PM
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jcm256

Posts: 1841
Joined: 01 April 2006

So in conclusion: who will estimate the amount of heat you generate from your system. Where will such an honest person come from and not offended by a smallish backhander, then that fixed for 20 years.

Will the taxpayer, pay for heating your swimming pool under the RHI scheme.
This is on the roof of someone I know, came along with the swimming pool, but the frost got it last year, must ask if they got it fixed.


http://www.h2otsun.com/ps/
 19 December 2011 09:44 PM
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sbrown2

Posts: 97
Joined: 25 July 2008

Thanks for the reply JCM. I was initially looking at the Energy Saving Trust page and the following comment;

As a requirement for the Renewable Heat Premium Payment you will be asked to submit information about how the technology you have installed is performing in its environment and you might be selected to have some monitoring equipment installed at the same time as your technology.

I wondered what technology or monitoring would be undertaken. Based on your assessment they will e utilising assumptions based on the size of the heatpump its coefficient of performance and then they will rely on the fact that the SAP calcs and the fact the products and installers are MCS accredited to continue with their assumptions and pay the RHI's.

Many Thanks
 22 January 2013 11:21 PM
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cmatheson

Posts: 211
Joined: 16 January 2003

I think generally the system of energy measurement is determined by the manufacturer of the heat pump or solar system. Normally that is based on temperature drop of the heat transfer medium for a given flow rate.

Some heat pump manufacturers will jealously guard thier control software so will not open the information on the measurement to the public.

-------------------------
Chris Matheson MInstMC
 22 January 2013 11:25 PM
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cmatheson

Posts: 211
Joined: 16 January 2003

I don't know if ther will be any control over how the generated heat will be used. I know on one solar installation where hot taps are left running all day. 25kW to burn!

-------------------------
Chris Matheson MInstMC
 23 January 2013 11:48 AM
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bajb

Posts: 560
Joined: 20 November 2002

The question I think was about heat pumps.
There is no substitute for reading the rules.
You need to understand the definition of domestic and commercial for RHI purposes.
You need to understand heat metering arrangements.
Current commercial RHI tariff requires heat metering.
Likely that future domestic tariff will be done on a 'deemed' basis.
Some of the key documents are on this page:
http://www.ofgem.gov.uk/e-serv.../Pages/howtoapply.aspx
 23 January 2013 06:43 PM
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jcm256

Posts: 1841
Joined: 01 April 2006

It is very completed to read.

Information picked from one of your sites.

Each applicant to the RHI Scheme will be subject to an identity verification check to verify their identity before their application is approved. Likewise, we will undertake checks to validate bank account details that they provide to us. Any discrepancies will be passed to our Fraud and Compliance Team to investigate.


This is really completed:
http://www.ofgem.gov.uk/e-serv...AQs%20-%20metering.pdf
 23 January 2013 08:38 PM
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perspicacious

Posts: 7140
Joined: 18 April 2006

I understand (without trawling through the links), that for domestic RHI, if you have access to mains gas, your property will not be eligible......

As to a wood chip set up I know, they receive 8p per kWh and the plant costs under 6p per kWh to run and fuel. Where is the owner's incentive to turn the thermostat down?

Regards

BOD
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