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Topic Title: what the hell is green deal??
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Created On: 09 December 2011 05:47 PM
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 10 June 2012 09:46 PM
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sparkingchip

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I'm not the only one according to The Electrical Times our members of Parliament are in the same boat!

Andy
 10 July 2012 10:52 PM
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sparkingchip

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 10 July 2012 11:24 PM
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sparkingchip

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From the Voltimum Website:

Government sets out next steps for Green Deal
12.06.2012



The Government today (June 11th, 2012) set out secondary legislation that will give industry the green light to bring the Green Deal energy efficiency market into operation, alongside measures to strengthen consumer protection, reduce industry burdens, and implement the Energy Company Obligation (ECO).



More and more families are being hit by the rising cost of gas and electricity, but our inefficient homes are using a lot more than they need to. Millions of homes do not have full double-glazing. More than half do not have enough insulation or an efficient condensing boiler. Most do not even have proper heating controls. Overall our leaky buildings account for 43% of the UK's total greenhouse gas emissions.

The Government-backed Green Deal programme will help bill payers make energy-saving improvements to keep their homes warm and cosy. With the Green Deal people will be able to pay for some or all of the work done with the savings expected to be made on energy bills. ECO, a subsidy from energy suppliers, will provide extra help for those most in need and for properties that are harder to treat.

These policies will boost the burgeoning low carbon economy by supporting up to 60,000 jobs in the insulation sector alone by 2015, up from around 26,000 today. They will empower consumers by giving them new ways of funding home improvements and empower businesses by enabling them to compete for energy efficiency opportunities in new and innovative ways.

In addition to setting out the parts of the framework that are already in place, today's announcements give clarity to the market by detailing next steps to getting Green Deal and ECO rules set by October, including, in legislation to be laid later this week, ensuring support worth around £1.3bn a year to deliver energy efficiency and heating measures across Great Britain to help tackle fuel poverty and climate change. An increased focus on poorer areas should see an extra 100,000 households in low income areas benefitting each year, compared to our original proposals, bringing the total number of low income households and those in low income areas assisted to around 230,000 a year.

Energy Secretary and Climate Change Secretary Edward Davey said:

"Today I have published the Government's detailed plans along with legislation that will allow the industry to bring the Green Deal into existence. The Green Deal will play a huge role in improving the energy efficiency of our homes and businesses, with ECO making sure that the most vulnerable homes benefit too.

"We have listened very carefully to what industry, consumer groups, and other organisations have told us. Broad support for a managed, tested and careful introduction of the Green Deal fits exactly with our objective to provide an excellent customer experience from day one and a market where a range of new players can readily participate.

"I am determined to make sure that, in addition to creating huge opportunities for Green Deal providers and businesses along with thousands of new jobs, this new market in energy efficiency will deliver the very best deal for consumers."

Following consideration of more than 600 responses to the Government's November consultation on the Green Deal and ECO, full details of the final policy are set out in the response document published today.

This includes ensuring that robust consumer standards are met, creating a market that balances consumer protection and burdens on businesses. Changes include improved consumer protections such as restrictions on 'cold calling', and new rules requiring Green Deal Assessors to declare any commission they might be receiving for carrying out an assessment and any ties to Green Deal Providers. A change to the warranties proposal eases requirements on businesses to hold warranties for the length of a Green Deal Plan while maintaining robust minimum standards of protection for consumers, including 25 year warranties in the case of wall insulation. Improvements for behind the scenes operations make it easier for energy companies administering the Green Deal charging to deliver a smoother customer experience.

Changes have also been made to the ECO to include allow more hard-to-treat cavity walls to qualify for support, and to provide specific support for low income and rural areas. These changes will help the insulation industry, which has been supported by current schemes, transition successfully to take advantage of the new market opportunities created by Green Deal and ECO. An estimated technical potential of around 2.8million hard to treat cavity wall properties will now be eligible under the ECO.

The Government has also confirmed it will introduce the Green Deal through supporting a responsible and controlled approach with full national systems testing. This is to ensure the market has the opportunity to build over the next eighteen months, meeting Government ambitions for a national energy efficiency retrofit across the next decade and beyond.

The Green Deal framework will be built on sound foundations, starting with assessors, installers and Green Deal Providers to ensure they are ready to start work in October. From August this year accredited certification bodies can submit applications to register with the Green Deal Registration and Oversight Body, and will then be able to register assessors and installers as 'Green Deal Approved'. Similarly, potential Green Deal Providers will be also able to apply for approval. At the same time, new systems introduced by energy suppliers for the collection of the Green Deal charge will be robustly tested. This will ensure that preparations can be made ready for the next step: the signing of the first Green Deal plans in January 2013, from where the market for the Green Deal will continue to grow.

Today's publications also include a final impact assessment and associated research, and confirm the appointment of Ofgem to be the ECO Administrator. Also today, guidance for industry sets out which measures will qualify for Green Deal finance and the ECO - 45 in all - providing clarity on which sectors fall within scope and underlining the opportunities for innovation enabled by the Green Deal.

The Government will shortly announce the contract awards for the Green Deal Registration and Oversight Body and the Green Deal Ombudsman and Investigation Service function. This builds on a series of key developments to prepare for the Green Deal and ECO:

In May DECC announced that a roadshow highlighting opportunities in the Green Deal supply chain for local businesses will travel to 11 cities across the UK in June and July. All companies interested in supplying into the Green Deal - from manufacturers and installers, to energy advisors and consultants - are encouraged to attend one of the free briefings.

In April, 22 Pioneer Green Deal providers signed a memorandum of understanding with DECC to become the first Green Deal providers, and the new national energy saving helpline opened for business with the Energy Saving Trust appointed as the contractor. This service will be essential to the Green Deal as it will support consumer confidence by providing impartial advice as well as encouraging take up of energy efficiency measures.

In March the Government, in co-operation with Asset Skills and Construction Skills, announced £3.5m to train up to 1,000 Green Deal insulation installers and 1,000 Green Deal assessors to the new National Occupational Standard for Green Deal assessment. This training will also include the validation of existing installer training courses to meet the new Green Deal PAS 2030 requirements and the training of trainers to ensure quality training courses are available.

In the November Autumn Statement it was announced that £200m has been allocated to encourage early uptake of the Green Deal. Proposals for using these funds will be announced later this year
 10 July 2012 11:29 PM
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sparkingchip

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I'm going through my emails and turning up all sorts!

Get yourself qualified for the Green Deal!

http://www.renewables-news.co....une_2012/button07.html
 23 July 2012 10:37 PM
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sparkingchip

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There is another issue that going to impact the Green deal in a big way, the decision by the European authorities that the UK government setting a VAT rate of 5% on energy saving products and measures is illegal. so it looks like the applicable VAT rate is going to be hiked up!

http://www.out-law.com/en/arti...that-it-is-unlawful1/

Andy
 24 July 2012 10:23 AM
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AJJewsbury

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taking out a green deal of £10,000 would have to pay back around £22,000 over a 25-year period, which is more than double the cost of paying for the measures up front.

Pretty much like having a mortgage then....
- Andy.
 24 July 2012 09:29 PM
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sparkingchip

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Remember a tenant can get the Green Deal work carried out and the cost added to the electric bill, then leave so other people have to pay the loan off.

Andy
 24 July 2012 11:47 PM
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AJJewsbury

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Remember a tenant can get the Green Deal work carried out and the cost added to the electric bill, then leave so other people have to pay the loan off.

Pretty much like a homeowner making improvements and passing the costs onto the next owner via an increased sale price (which is then usually paid for twice or more over via a mortgage)....

Both have a choice - pick a cheap rent/mortgage and get a an unimproved home, or get a better one ... and pay more.

That's "the market" I suppose.

- Andy.
 05 October 2012 09:50 PM
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jcm256

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Green deal Launched today,

On today's news channels, Electricity will cost more because Europe is making UK close down Power Stations. Only two green deal providers, what if the golden rule does not reduce fuel bills for people that cannot afford the heating bills at present.

£99 for assessment is that on top of a 20-year loan at 8%.

.http://www.lovemoney.com/news/...ith-just-one-provider,
 08 October 2012 08:07 PM
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Zs

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No bias whatsoever. I am not a trust mark member any more.

But this arrived. I have barely read it but thought it might interst you.

Zs



'Green Deal Ancillary Works - An Urgent Warning

There's nothing secondary about the 'ancillary works' triggered by Green Deal - An urgent warning by TrustMark

What is the problem?

In the run up to the launch of the Government's flagship energy efficiency policy, the Green Deal, TrustMark is warning again of the high risk of rogue traders cashing in on what the Secretary of State has described as "the most ambitious home improvement programme since the Second World War".

The big problem revolves around an unfortunate decision to drop any safeguards in the Green Deal Code of Practice regarding what have been called 'ancillary works' - in effect, the basic home repairs and maintenance that will inevitably be required before Green Deal improvements can be made to our homes. For example:

The re-pointing of walls and chimneys before flues can be safely installed for new boilers.

Creation of better ventilation to timber floors, or the treatment of damp and other problems before floor or solid wall insulation can be installed.

Repairs to fix slipped roof tiles, to repair leaks, unblock ventilation etc. before loft insulation can be installed and work effectively.


What is the likely scale of the problem?

The Government wants the Green Deal to transform the energy performance of 14 million homes. But an opinion poll by YouGov this month suggests that 38% of all British homeowners already suspect their homes will need repairs or maintenance work carried out before such energy saving measures could be useful or worthwhile.

In fact, the true extent of necessary repairs will rapidly become apparent the moment we start work on our ageing housing stock.

Assuming just a 25% take up of Green Deal work in the pre-1980 owner occupied housing stock (the Government's prime target for Green Deal), TrustMark estimates that an additional £1.45 billion - £2.9 billion market for home repairs will be created as a direct result of the Green Deal. In many cases this work will fall outside any of the protections created for Green Deal.

On top of this, there is the value of additional home improvement work purchased by the homeowner at the same time and any work funded privately. Such work, including things like new kitchens, home remodelling and redecoration services, can be up-sold by Green Deal Providers but will also fall outside the Green Deal's Code of Practice requirements.

Indeed, the YouGov opinion poll reveals that only 22% of homeowners say they would be more likely to use Green Deal finance than using more traditional sources of finance to fund the work, such as putting it on the mortgage, using savings, using a credit card loan, using money from friends or family, or using some other privately organised finance. This means billions of pounds of home improvements and 'ancillary work' that will fall outside Green Deal funding and outside Green Deal protection.

If the public is not supported in its attempts to find reputable, vetted and insured firms to carry out this work, we are putting at risk:

Homeowners - who are very likely to find they need repairs done before they can go ahead with Green Deal Plans, or who may choose to fund additional home improvements at the same time. This particularly applies to vulnerable people including the elderly and younger consumers, the groups who need these home improvements the most to help reduce their fuel bills.

The technical success and effectiveness of energy-saving measures - which can end up totally ruined if accompanied by bodge jobs and poor 'ancillary works'.

The reputation and success of the Green Deal initiative itself - which could easily become tarnished by the activities of rogue firms cashing in on a new sales opportunity and low consumer awareness of where the Green Deal's consumer protection starts and finishes.

Does the Government know about these risks?

Yes. Consumer advice organisations have consistently made it known that they expect to see that the implementation of the Green Deal will trigger a wave of associated building work and an increase in rogue trader activities and consumer detriment. A £737 million problem annually is just about to get much worse.

Consequently, the Department of Energy and Climate Change's original draft Green Deal Code of Practice was developed in close liaison with TrustMark and other advisers. It stated:

"Any ancillary works carried out in relation to and/or preparation for Green Deal financed measures must be carried out by members of Competent Person's Schemes (or their equivalent) or TrustMark registered firms if available and appropriate for the work being carried out."

However, these safeguards have been taken out of the latest version of the Code of Practice which was laid before Parliament in June 2012. There is nothing at all about ancillary works in the current regulations.

We have had a good working relationship with officials working on the Green Deal and there was some surprise when TrustMark pointed out this last minute change to the document. While we understand the officials are keen to see a statement on ancillary works reinserted into the Code of Practice, this is far from certain yet.


So what needs to happen now?

TrustMark and a range of charities, consumer advice bodies, trade associations and industry groups are calling for an urgent updating of the Code of Practice before the practical start of the Green Deal.

The Green Deal Code of Practice must include an obligation upon Green Deal Providers to signpost domestic customers to reputable firms - home repair, maintenance and improvement specialists who are vetted, insured and required to work to Government-endorsed standards, eg:

"Where a domestic customer is required to carry out ancillary work in relation to, in preparation for, and/or in addition to Green Deal financed measures, the Provider should signpost the customer to local reputable firms registered with TrustMark and/or Competent Person's Schemes and working to Government endorsed standards."

While the major responsibility lies with Green Deal Providers to tell people about TrustMark and how it can help homeowners, we also hope to see a high level of awareness of this requirement by assessors, installers, the Green Deal advice service and all parties who are dealing with the customer in order to ensure consistent advice and signposting.

TrustMark will continue to cooperate closely with Green Deal Providers and all other parties to ensure they can easily access registered firms within the TrustMark scheme and that they have all the relevant information to give to domestic customers.

We also strongly recommend that an integrated, coordinated communications campaign - via Government, industry and consumer protection groups - is established, to ensure consumers are aware of the limits of Green Deal protection as well as the benefits.

TrustMark is a not-for-profit organisation licensed by Government and supported by industry and consumer protection groups. Its logo bears the words 'Government endorsed standards'.

TrustMark provides a free and easy service to householders to select a tradesman with confidence, knowing the firm's competence and fair trading practices have been independently checked. TrustMark has the largest database of accredited tradesmen in the country, providing national coverage with more than 21,000 trades listed on its database and generating more than 300,000 viewings by consumers each month.

We see the Green Deal and the ancillary works it will create as a positive opportunity for domestic building led growth in the economy. But we also see the importance of Government leadership to signpost people to TrustMark - if it is promoting opportunities to households and encouraging them to undertake all sorts of refurbishment and building works, it is equally essential to help people avoid the rogue traders (who will also be aware of the opportunities).

We are united in our desire for a more energy efficient housing stock. But we must avoid the damage caused by rogue traders sweeping in to profit from the ancillary work for Green Deal customers and putting the entire Green Deal programme at risk of technical failure and reputational ruin.

We need to ensure all households know how to find vetted, inspected and insured local tradesmen, rather than leaving Green Deal customers at the mercy of dodgy referrals, leaflets through the door, telephone directories or unverified information on 'findanyoldbuilder.com' websites and social media.

END'
 08 October 2012 09:20 PM
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sparkingchip

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To be honest I've lost the plot, I cannot tell you of the top of my head the various schemes and registration requirements for participation in the Green Deal. Now bear in mind I have been following the development of the Green deal since it's inception and if I don't know then Joe Public don't stand a chance.

Having said that the issues raised by Trustmark only apply if the Green deal installer is undertaking the ancillary work, if the customer is organising it themselves it is up to them to vet the contractor themselves.


However you then need to consider that NAPIT and the FMB have formed an alliance also both are involved with the Trustmark scheme http://www.napit.org.uk/newsStory.asp?id=173 so there should be a route to ensuring that all work complies with requirements and plenty of involvement for Trustmark.

Andy
 09 October 2012 09:30 AM
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AJJewsbury

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"Any ancillary works carried out in relation to and/or preparation for Green Deal financed measures must be carried out by members of Competent Person's Schemes (or their equivalent) or TrustMark registered firms if available and appropriate for the work being carried out."

Smacks rather at an attempt at restraint of trade to me - I'm not surprised it was rejected. I'm sure that a lot of "ancillary" work could quite reasonably be done by the householder themselves as DIY or the local handyman or favoured local small builder/roofer etc. To give the big-company "salesmen" the tools to say "Oh, no, we have to do that too (at £££/hr) otherwise your green deal package wouldn't be valid" is to put the householder over a barrel - even if it is a different barrel than we're used to with the usual rogue traders.

- Andy.
 12 October 2012 12:08 AM
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sparkingchip

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http://www.britishgas.co.uk/freeinsulation

http://www.britishgas.co.uk/sm...nergy/green-deal.html

it's a real no brainer, free insulation now instead of years of debt paying for it as part of a Green Deal installation.

So if the free insulation requires advertising and promotion to try and get people to take up the offer the Green Deal surely has to be a hard sell.

Andy
 17 October 2012 11:22 AM
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jcm256

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How to be a Green Deal Advisor.

A lesson on badly written sentence and clarity.


You can become a Green Deal Advisor by being a qualified Domestic Energy Assessor & Green Deal Advisor. You will then need to be a member of a Green Deal Advisory Service. The Green Deal Advisory Service will have gained certification to the Green Deal Advisor standard by a Green Deal Certification body. At Easy Green Deal we will support your company through the Green Deal Advisory Service assessment ensuring you meet all the Green Deal Advisor standards and code of practice.

Edited: 27 January 2013 at 12:53 PM by jcm256
 27 January 2013 12:48 PM
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jcm256

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The Green deal starts on 28 January will the green deal be a good deal.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/fin...ite-1000-cashback.html

Edited: 27 January 2013 at 01:10 PM by jcm256
 27 January 2013 01:30 PM
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Seems to me their is a high risk of miss selling here. I really don't think it's a good idea to have a long term debt on a meter! It will be interesting to see what the take up is like with the Deal.
 27 January 2013 01:48 PM
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alancapon

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There are some interesting comments in the linked article.

From the linked article in The Telegraph:

. . . Any money that is borrowed will be attached to your property's energy bill rather than you as an individual. So should you move home, the debt does not move with you, but instead stays with the property. . .

. . . if a buyer refuses to take on the Green Deal loan, the seller will have to repay it early and may have to pay an exit penalty. This is because the provider is entitled to claim for the interest that would have been charged had the deal continued to the end. . .

That should make things interesting in the future!

Regards,

Alan.
 27 January 2013 02:18 PM
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OMS

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I guess we've just got to hope that conveyancing solicitors are up to speed

Regards

OMS

-------------------------
Failure is always an option
 27 January 2013 06:46 PM
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sparkingchip

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I was going to add a post to this topic back on the 17th November 2012, only I didn't get around to it.

It was a Saturday and I had the BCC Breakfast programme on the TV as I prepared to go to work. There was a review of the newspaper front pages and the Telegraph had a article on the front page "Green Deal 'in tatters' as householders fail to join" now they have twisted the knife with the only two householders register a interest story.

I have the front page of the Telegraph of the 17/11/12 in front of me with the story printed on it having slightly different wording to the online version in the link.

I think we can take it the telegraph does not support the Green Deal!

Andy
 29 June 2013 11:22 PM
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sparkingchip

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This discussion started in December 2011, well here we are in June 2013 and we know the answer to "What the hell is the Green Deal".

It is another complete mess and a total failure that is sinking as fast as any other scheme the government seems to think it is capable of getting off the ground. It will go down in history on the same list as Home Condition Reports and Homesellers Packs, the only surviving element of the Home Condition Reports are the Energy Performance Certificates and those came from the European Union not the UK legislators.

Am I alone in think this? Apparently not!

I know from speaking to guys who work at the local cavity wall insulation bead plant it has virtually put them out of work, it is a total mess.

How do you judge failure?

Andy

http://www.guardian.co.uk/envi...gy-efficiency-cashback

Edited: 29 June 2013 at 11:41 PM by sparkingchip
IET » Wiring and the regulations » what the hell is green deal??

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