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Topic Title: what the hell is green deal??
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Created On: 09 December 2011 05:47 PM
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 09 December 2011 05:47 PM
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davyn1

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never heard of it and will it cost money(i'm not self employed anymore just curious)


http://www.niceic.electricaldi...part-of-the-green-deal

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just because i'm paranoid doesn't mean theyre not out to get me
 09 December 2011 05:50 PM
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OMS

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try here for an overview davy

Regards

OMS

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 09 December 2011 05:53 PM
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rocknroll

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First proposed to parliament in December 2010 as the centrepiece of the Coalition Government's Energy Bill, the Green Deal will allow private energy firms to provide domestic and commercial customers with double glazing, loft and wall insulation and other structural improvements designed to boost the energy efficiency of their buildings and reduce heating bills.

From autumn 2012, participating energy utility companies and accredited retailers such as Tesco, B&Q and Marks & Spencer will provide customers across the UK with quality-assured work to their homes, businesses and community spaces for no upfront cost, and without loans or advance finance.

regards

-------------------------
"Take nothing but a picture,
leave nothing but footprints!"
-------------------------
"Oh! The drama of it all."
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"You can throw all the philosophy you like at the problem, but at the end of the day it's just basic electrical theory!"
-------------------------
 09 December 2011 07:03 PM
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davyn1

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From autumn 2012, participating energy utility companies and accredited retailers such as Tesco, B&Q and Marks & Spencer will provide customers across the UK with quality-assured work to their homes, businesses and community spaces for no upfront cost, and without loans or advance finance.

what like free ??
davy

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just because i'm paranoid doesn't mean theyre not out to get me
 09 December 2011 07:13 PM
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OMS

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Well the cost is recovered through your meter payments - but should be about the same as the saving you make because of the improved efficiency - so if you qualify, effectively free yes

OMS

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 09 December 2011 07:16 PM
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sparkingchip

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I know!!

As I went to the Installer live show at the NEC at listened to a talk by a lady from the Department of Environment and Climate Change DECC on the Green Deal, then I attended a talk by David Cowburn of NAPIT on the Renewalable Heat Incentive and opportunities for installers!

I'll spill the beans a bit later if I get a few minutes.

Andy
 09 December 2011 07:21 PM
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rocknroll

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There are no absolute specific details at the moment only proposals, but put it this way, the major chains have been embracing energy efficient technologies such as rainwater collection for toilets, lighting, A/C, solar panels etc etc, the millions saved could find its way into the communities and fund or partly fund important green projects.

Thats all I can say.

regards

-------------------------
"Take nothing but a picture,
leave nothing but footprints!"
-------------------------
"Oh! The drama of it all."
-------------------------
"You can throw all the philosophy you like at the problem, but at the end of the day it's just basic electrical theory!"
-------------------------
 09 December 2011 09:16 PM
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sparkingchip

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A little history lesson!

Go back 25-30 years ago and there were a lot of people buying their council houses with the right to buy scheme, however despite getting the loan to buy the house or flat they could not get further credit to carry out improvements such as installing central heating.

However if they agreed to have a quote from British Gas the BG salesmen had it made because they knew they could offer credit to these new home owners in a way that no one else could do.

So the BG salesmen would turn up at the property carry out the survey and prepare the quote, then they would tell the clients that they could have the central heating on credit did not need to pay a deposit, have a credit reference check carried out also they could have a new gas cooker if they wanted one!

All the client had to do was sign the contract and the central heating would be installed along with the new cooker, then the gas meter installer would call around and crank up the gas meter so every time they put some money in the meter part of it covered the bill for the gas used and the remainder paid for the goods and services supplied, eventually after ten to fifteen years the debt would be cleared and the meter could be reset to pay for gas used only again.

However when the gas and electricity markets became a free for all putting debt onto the meters to cover the cost of home improvements was banned as it stopped people changing suppliers easily as there was the debt to consider.

Now the Green Deal is going to reintroduce this system, a sales person will call and prepare a scheme of energy saving improvements for the client covering all aspects including solar electric, solar water heating, insulation, double glazing, heat recovery ventilation (yes Dave it's in the package) and so on and so forth. The clients will not have to pay for the work at the time it is carried out the debt will be put onto the electricty bill and tied to the meter, so if the property changes tenancy or ownership then the new electricity account holders will have to carry on paying of the debt. So at present you may take over a prepayment meter account and discover it has a outstanding debt to clear on it, however with the green deal any electricity meter may have a debt of thousands of pounds tied to it.

Now in theory the work carried out will reduce your energy consumption and hence reduce your energy bills, thus although you are paying off the debt you may end up paying out less on a monthly basis however it is not guaranteed, hopefully you won't end up paying out more than before the work was carried but you may end up paying out more each month. You may also have the benefit of feed in tariffs and payments from the Renewable Heat Incentive to offset against your repayments on the loan, however a landlord can keep these payments and charge tenants full market prices for electric and heating.


Now for a big consideration for those who think they are going to benefit from carrying out the installation work, installation companies will only be able to work directly for the finance provider, although they are working in the clients home they will not have a contract with them and will be working for the finance provider.

So my take on this is it is turning the clock back 25-30 years, the big companies such as British gas will dominate the Green Deal and small installation companies are going to have to enter into providing finance and arranging repayment through the electricity supply companies or just accept that if they want to carry out installation work under the Green deal they will have to sub-contract to the big boys and the select few retailers.

Regards Andy
 09 December 2011 10:00 PM
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alancapon

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I agree. The "green deal" payment methods being discussed here would require a change in the law to allow debts other than energy to be recovered via the tariff metering. This will apply to both gas and electricity.

Regards,

Alan.
 09 December 2011 10:14 PM
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sparkingchip

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The emphasis's is on using electric meters to recover the debt as as a generalisation all homes have a electric meter, but not a gas meter.

Andy
 10 December 2011 11:44 AM
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rogersmith7671

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If SME's desire Independence from "The Big Boys" within the green deal,an application to become a Green deal provider should be made.
This link should give details;
http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/cont..._providers.aspx


As the repayments for any works are recovered from the "meter" and are legally transferred to subsequent bill payers, payment for any works carried out should be "guaranteed". This "no brainer" approach is very attractive to large organisations such as Tesco, B&Q,M&S, Et al, but should not be seen as a barrier to small and medium sized enterprises.

Regards.

Edited: 10 December 2011 at 11:55 AM by rogersmith7671
 10 December 2011 12:25 PM
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sparkingchip

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I have already decided there is not going to be anyway I could be a Green Deal provider, so could only benefit from subbing to the bigger fish in the pond. I do think though that British Gas and similar organisations will turn out to be the Pike or Zander in the pond swallowing up all the small fry!

Try this link to DECC

Andy

You do of course realise this is the reason for all the competence and accreditation schemes, if people are going to be tied into paying for work carried out several years before they even owned or tenanted a dwelling then it needs to be good well performing technology.
 10 December 2011 12:47 PM
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rogersmith7671

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Quote;
The Green Deal. a summary of the Government's proposals.

"Some Green Deal providers will offer an integrated service with in-house advisers and installers. Others will sub-contract with independent advisers and installers. Our accreditation schemes will help give green deal providers the confidence to contract with independent organisations."

Regards.

Link;
http://www.decc.gov.uk/assets/...l-summary-proposals.pd
 10 December 2011 01:01 PM
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sparkingchip

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These Green Deal advisors will train up from being existing energy performance assessors producing energy performance certificates or will they come from the sales teams of heating installation companies, or could they even be retrained Home Condition Report surveyors?

Andy
 10 December 2011 01:10 PM
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sparkingchip

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This all takes a bit of keeping up with:

Preparing you in line with the proposed major change to the content and format of domestic EPC launch in April 2012

Domestic Energy Assessors (DEAs) who wish to continue practicing and to maintain their accreditation after 6th April 2012 will need to undertake further training in the new qualification and successfully pass the examination, prior to this date.

From Stroma
 10 December 2011 01:14 PM
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rogersmith7671

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Quote;
"These Green Deal advisors will train up from being existing energy performance assessors producing energy performance certificates or will they come from the sales teams of heating installation companies, or could they even be retrained Home Condition Report surveyors? "

All of the above i suspect. However, there may be a new competence requirement for Green Deal advisers, TBA Q1,2012.

link;

http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/cont...advisors/advisors.aspx
 10 December 2011 01:20 PM
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sparkingchip

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A existing EPC gives recommendations for improvements and seems a logical point to start to try and bring in some clients, as well as the introduction by the plumber called out to the boiler break down as mentioned in the DECC guide to the Green Deal.

So this begs the question, is there the possibility that as an Electrician I may be able to get a finders fee for introducing clients to the providers

Andy

I think we are in front of the market with these discussions, early birds again! Others are lining themselves up for when it kicks off.

Here's the big issue as it comes without any refunds if performance is not achieved:

1. The expected financial savings must be
equal to or greater than the costs attached
to the energy bill, known as "the golden rule"
of the Green Deal.

Edited: 10 December 2011 at 02:05 PM by sparkingchip
 10 December 2011 02:21 PM
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sparkingchip

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Just looking at the Stroma website

The Private Rented Sector

From April 2016, private residential landlords will be unable to refuse a tenant's reasonable request for consent to energy efficiency improvements where a finance package, such as the Green Deal and/or the Energy Company Obligation (ECO), is available.
Provisions in the Act also provide for powers to ensure that from April 2018, it will be unlawful to rent out a residential or business premise that does not reach a minimum energy efficiency standard (the intention is for this to be set at EPC rating 'E')

So how does that work out if a building is multiple dwelling with the landlord supplying the electric through his own landlord meters?

Alan's reply:

The additional charge I suspect would have to be placed onto the landlord's meter, for him/her to pass on as appropriate. Of course, there is the other option of the landlord deciding to get the DNOs to fit meters to the individual flats. I would expect there to be some kind of safeguard to ensure that the bill payer (in your example the landlord) to have to accept the additional charge.

With rental flats like this, the most convenient option is often a "key" or "token" type of meter.

Regards,

Alan.
 10 December 2011 02:26 PM
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sparkingchip

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You could end up with a tenant who moves several times in a short space of time ordering work to be carried out on the flat they move into leaving after six months with a outstanding charge to be recovered off the electric bill for the next twenty five years, when at the moment they cannot even paint the walls pink!

Andy

British Gas Green Deal they already have it set up and in the bag, don't they?
 10 December 2011 05:02 PM
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rogersmith7671

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Quote;
British Gas Green Deal.
"We want to provide you with a full home assessment where we will survey your property and provide you with recommendations on the right solutions for your home. This could be anything from insulation which costs from £199*, to solar panels costing around £9,999 (2.3kWp system) so you can generate your own electricity at home. We also plan to offer no upfront costs and the ability to pay for your improvements for up to 15 years."
My underline.

At this rate there will be nothing to fear from the "big boys". Hopelessly over priced.

Regards.
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