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Topic Title: Two Installation Certificates needed with Off Peak?
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Created On: 12 July 2011 11:48 PM
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 12 July 2011 11:48 PM
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rslane

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Off peak, four 16A radial circuits, has its own consumer unit, so does it need a separate installation certificate or can it be a continuation sheet to the main certificate? Seems odd issuing two certificates for the one installation unless there can be some form of cross referencing or tying them together. Although some of the details on page two of the certificate, like the main switch details, will be referring to different switches, even if the answers are the same.
What do other folk do?
 12 July 2011 11:51 PM
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Martynduerden

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One cert, two boards both fed from origin. I usually advise an REC4s is fitted in the tails too.

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Martyn.

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 12 July 2011 11:51 PM
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alancapon

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My opinion is one meter = one installation, two meters = two installations etc.

Regards,

Alan.
 12 July 2011 11:54 PM
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Martynduerden

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Originally posted by: alancapon

My opinion is one meter = one installation, two meters = two installations etc.



Regards,



Alan.



How does that work on three phase? 3 meters one board three installations?

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Martyn.

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 13 July 2011 12:00 AM
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alancapon

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I would expect three-phase to be on a single three-phase meter. The only exception would be a two-phase installation, as suitable meters are not generally available. Perhaps I should have been clearer. An E7 meter would be one installation, but a standard meter and an off-peak meter would be two in my opinion.

Regards,

Alan.
 13 July 2011 12:12 AM
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Martynduerden

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Must be a little better on the IOM, most 3ph installs I come across are three separate meters, I would be more likely to say one head = one installation.

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Martyn.

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 13 July 2011 01:05 AM
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spinlondon

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Yes, there are many 3 phase installations which have three separate meters.
However, sometimes you can have one 3 phase head, supplying three separate single phase installations.
 13 July 2011 01:09 AM
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Martynduerden

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Originally posted by: spinlondon

Yes, there are many 3 phase installations which have three separate meters.

However, sometimes you can have one 3 phase head, supplying three separate single phase installations.


I hadn't thought of that, could you give me an example where this would be three separate installations from one head - I'm not questioning you just cant envisage at the moment

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 13 July 2011 01:27 AM
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spinlondon

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Premises where there is a lock up shop, a flat behind the shop and a flat above both.
 13 July 2011 01:43 AM
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Martynduerden

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Fair enough those type of premises I have come across have separate heads for each flat/ premises mainly I suspect due to access issues not forgetting the limit on length for tails. Might be one for the EICR If the switchgear is inaccessible in emergency

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Martyn.

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 13 July 2011 03:04 AM
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rslane

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Thanks for the inputs. Just got back from checking that it all fired up ok on the off peak. Of course had to wait till 01.00 being summer time. Even after 1 hour noticable difference between an FXL storage heater (exterior almost cold still) and a conventional dimplex storage heater of same rating that was already belting out the heat even with output set to minimum. So it appears the FXL is doing its job and should be full of heat still in the evening when someone wants to draw it out with the fan.

However the other two storage heaters not so good. The smallest not functioning - no volts out of the control module - will have to look into that. The largest of heaters still on its back with the 16 bricks in pile. Not only had the feet started curling up but when I got it on its back I found that the base of the casing at one end was pushed up so far it nearly touched the ceramic connector block for the end module. Presumably where somone had tried to leaver it up with the bricks inside to slide the laminate flooring underneath.
 13 July 2011 03:16 AM
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rslane

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...but back to the certificate. Yes one meter, E7, but two mains switches, so really need two page 2s of the certificate or else I else I add the second main switch details on the continuation sheet I am using for the off peak consumer unit.

It certainly dont seem right to issue a certificate that omitts the off peak.

If I had left it as I had found it could I have got away with 1 1/2 certificates as main tarif and off peak half shared a 100A isolator!! That is one had been added to the tails on the meter board. If it had been 3 pole and switched the off peak live as well as the off peak neutral it might even have made things safer!!
 13 July 2011 09:46 AM
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WalkersWiring

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I am in the process of issuing EIC's for a similar sounding job. A first floor flat, which was originally the upper floor of a two storey office. I am issuing an EIC for the standard supply having ticked the 'new installation' & 'addition to an existing installation' boxes, as I have utilised some of the existing cables for two circuits, and will issue a seperate EIC for the off-peak supply.

Both supplies are from the same meter, but the tails have seperate DP isolators adjacent to the meter. Correct or not, this feels to me to be the better method under the described circumstances.

I also can't see how to get around the issue of page 2 of the EIC (I use the downloadable IEE model BS 7671 forms). One C/U has a BS 60947-3 main switch, the other has an RCD as a main switch. To my mind, that alone calls for seperate documents.

Hope that's helpful...

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Regards -

Jerry

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of a cheap price...
 13 July 2011 07:44 PM
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rslane

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Have now issued a certificate for the main supply. One for the off peak to follow. Still to trace one existing cable to see if it needs an RCD on it. Had thougt the old cricuits were all in surface trunking and have made sure the new circuit is on the surface. But the upstairs storage heater supply runs up into the roof and I havent found where it gets back down yet. So maybe I go for an RCD main switch - will pretty well cover everything against everything then.

But still feels slightly odd issuing one cert for the 24/7 supply in advance of the Off - peak one when they meet up again in one of the storage heaters.

Do I isuue Building regs cert now, or is the job not finsihed till I have signed off the off peak? Or do I issue 2, both saying I have changed the CU - bit of a nonesense as there is no scope to say one is main, the other off peak.
 13 July 2011 08:03 PM
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WalkersWiring

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But still feels slightly odd issuing one cert for the 24/7 supply in advance of the Off - peak one when they meet up again in one of the storage heaters.


Not really following what you're saying here...

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Regards -

Jerry

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of a cheap price...
 13 July 2011 08:15 PM
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spinlondon

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I'd issue one EIC, with separate schedules of inspections and tests for each DB.
 13 July 2011 08:27 PM
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WalkersWiring

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Spin, what about page 2 of the EIC where it asks for the details of the main switch? Is there a way around that?

One EIC certainly makes sense to me, and as you say, seperate schedules of inspections and test results would be appropriate, but I can't see a way around my page 2 mental block?

-------------------------
Regards -

Jerry

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of a cheap price...
 13 July 2011 08:48 PM
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spinlondon

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Originally posted by: WalkersWiring
Spin, what about page 2 of the EIC where it asks for the details of the main switch? Is there a way around that?

One EIC certainly makes sense to me, and as you say, seperate schedules of inspections and test results would be appropriate, but I can't see a way around my page 2 mental block?


Yes there is a way round it.
Install just the one main switch as per Regulation 537.1.4, or issue two EICs
 13 July 2011 09:00 PM
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WalkersWiring

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If you have seperate consumer units as I have installed, then yes, 2 EIC's is the only option I can see...

Cheers Spin...

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Regards -

Jerry

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of a cheap price...
 13 July 2011 09:15 PM
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spinlondon

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When conducting PIRs, I put down both main switches with a "/" between them if different, or "x 2" if both the same.
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