IET logo
 
IET
Decrease font size
Increase font size
Topic Title: Service fuse upgrade ,
Topic Summary: How difficult to arrange ?
Created On: 18 January 2011 07:20 PM
Status: Post and Reply
Linear : Threading : Single : Branch
<< 1 2 3 4 Previous Next Last unread
Search Topic Search Topic
Topic Tools Topic Tools
View similar topics View similar topics
View topic in raw text format. Print this topic.
 02 February 2011 08:51 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for slittle.
slittle

Posts: 3484
Joined: 22 November 2007

It must depend who you talk to and which bit of UKPN's area you are in.

I've currently got two jobs running with them and just put a third in. One is a CT chamber install for metering, one is 2 x 70kva supplies with a new transfomer and HV diversion and today's is two service alterations on the same site.

All dealt with without any problems. In fact the CT job has happened quicker than I wanted as we're short of resources at the moment.

The only thing slowing the new supplies job is that the weather has made the ground so wet, the farmer has to build a road to enable us and UKPN access to the site as it's even too muddy for a 4 x 4.


Stu
 03 February 2011 12:32 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for BigRed.
BigRed

Posts: 558
Joined: 10 November 2006

Originally posted by: Ampman
Ps I have found a phone number i can ring in the morning it cost £ 158 inc vat ,



And that's just for the phonecall
 03 February 2011 09:14 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



CMD

Posts: 197
Joined: 17 November 2008

Originally posted by: alancapon

Originally posted by: Ampman

Only problem with the service cut out i need upgrading is the fact its a pilc cable so has bitumen in it .


Depends on the DNO. Metal cutouts can be a problem, as the change is usually done with the service cable remaining live. We do most single-phase live, but isolate with three-phase.



Regards,



Alan.


The cable is supposed to be isolated outside the property before attempting to even work on even a single phase cast iron service head. Its viewed as dangerous to do other wise.
 03 February 2011 09:19 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



alancapon

Posts: 5761
Joined: 27 December 2005

Originally posted by: CMD
The cable is supposed to be isolated outside the property before attempting to even work on even a single phase cast iron service head. Its viewed as dangerous to do other wise.

That depends on the DNO, staff training, service head type and the risk assessment for the job.

Regards,

Alan.
 03 February 2011 09:41 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for slittle.
slittle

Posts: 3484
Joined: 22 November 2007

Originally posted by: alancapon

Originally posted by: CMD

The cable is supposed to be isolated outside the property before attempting to even work on even a single phase cast iron service head. Its viewed as dangerous to do other wise.


That depends on the DNO, staff training, service head type and the risk assessment for the job.



Regards,



Alan.



I often wonder how our forefathers got on, surely in the dark days before health and safety came along to spoil all the fun, jointers were jointers and cast iron heads were around. I still hear stories from "the olden days" when cables were jointed live with solder

I suspect a large amount of the risk is how much of the householder's junk surrounds the cutout and prevents getting away quickly from anything that's going wrong.


Stu
 03 February 2011 09:56 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



ant1uk

Posts: 2376
Joined: 22 June 2010

With the correct PPE I cant see a problem with this. and of course the nerve and steady hands . but I agree with one thing those old green iron boxes I wouldn't touch with a piece of wood they are dodgy and fall apart.
 04 February 2011 07:19 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



CMD

Posts: 197
Joined: 17 November 2008

Originally posted by: alancapon

Originally posted by: CMD

The cable is supposed to be isolated outside the property before attempting to even work on even a single phase cast iron service head. Its viewed as dangerous to do other wise.


That depends on the DNO, staff training, service head type and the risk assessment for the job.



Regards,



Alan.


DNO by me wont carry out any live metal service head changeovers full stop, some of the jointers do to save digging a hole outside to isolate the cable but it can cost them ther job if ther job if found out.
 20 February 2011 04:33 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



Ampman

Posts: 1009
Joined: 06 February 2006

Hi All ,

Just to give you the latest on this ,

UK Power networks still want £ 1200.00 quid to upgrade the service cutout .

They told my customer it will only to take 3hrs work max .

£ 400 an hour Wish i could get those rates .

They have gone from saying that the property needs a new cable , to saying it doesnt .

They will now dig hole in garden to isolate the cable , Not sure how they do this they must cut it live some how .

Any way Customer doesnt want to pay £ 1200 ,

UK Power networks have not even been out to property to look at job .

My other option is to change the 60 amp to a 80 amp myself which i am very reluctant to do .

I am not sure weather the 60 amp carrier will take the 80 amp load .

Or are all 60 amp carriers designed to take 80 amp as well ?

This carry on with the uk power networks is a nightmare & has really got to me ,

They wont even fit a isolater so i can isolate the property , nor will siemens fit me a isolater .

I will not call the dno in the future .

I Have lost all respect for them . I have never had issues like this before ,

I used to call one number & it was all sorted .

Now i am left no option other than to change the fuse my self .

cheers

rant over
 20 February 2011 05:49 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



alancapon

Posts: 5761
Joined: 27 December 2005

Originally posted by: Ampman
Just to give you the latest on this ,
UK Power networks still want £ 1200.00 quid to upgrade the service cutout .
They told my customer it will only to take 3hrs work max .

That would be about right for time. The rest of the money goes towards reinforcing the network for the additional load. It is fairer to charge everyone based on additional kVA requirements that to only charge the person who comes along after there is no more available.

. . . UK Power networks have not even been out to property to look at job . . .

They probably don't need to. Everything they need for a standard job like this will be stocked on the van, and a standard charge per kVA additional load.

. . . I am not sure weather the 60 amp carrier will take the 80 amp load .
Or are all 60 amp carriers designed to take 80 amp as well ? . . .

It may not. Some are only rated at 60A.

. . . Now i am left no option other than to change the fuse my self . . .

That could be interesting. Without the correct seals on the meter / cutout, it is unlikely that the DNO / Meter Operator's insurance will pay up if it goes wrong at a later date. The householders insurance may not pay up. Working on the DNOs equipment without authority, your liability insurance may not pay up. Which leaves you. . . .

Regards,

Alan.
 20 February 2011 06:08 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for Paradigm.
Paradigm

Posts: 700
Joined: 10 September 2010

Originally posted by: alancapon

Originally posted by: Ampman

Just to give you the latest on this ,

UK Power networks still want £ 1200.00 quid to upgrade the service cutout .

They told my customer it will only to take 3hrs work max .


That would be about right for time. The rest of the money goes towards reinforcing the network for the additional load. It is fairer to charge everyone based on additional kVA requirements that to only charge the person who comes along after there is no more available.



. . . UK Power networks have not even been out to property to look at job . . .


They probably don't need to. Everything they need for a standard job like this will be stocked on the van, and a standard charge per kVA additional load.



. . . I am not sure weather the 60 amp carrier will take the 80 amp load .

Or are all 60 amp carriers designed to take 80 amp as well ? . . .


It may not. Some are only rated at 60A.



. . . Now i am left no option other than to change the fuse my self . . .


That could be interesting. Without the correct seals on the meter / cutout, it is unlikely that the DNO / Meter Operator's insurance will pay up if it goes wrong at a later date. The householders insurance may not pay up. Working on the DNOs equipment without authority, your liability insurance may not pay up. Which leaves you. . . .



Regards,



Alan.


So what you are saying there Alan is that there are potentially thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of DNO's service equipment, in premises, that are uninsured at this very moment.

Hmm..................................

-------------------------
"be careful of what you write"

Edited: 20 February 2011 at 06:19 PM by Paradigm
 20 February 2011 07:01 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



alancapon

Posts: 5761
Joined: 27 December 2005

Originally posted by: Paradigm
So what you are saying there Alan is that there are potentially thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of DNO's service equipment, in premises, that are uninsured at this very moment. . .

That would have to be proved by a claim if something went wrong. What I am saying, is that if the cutout / meter is not sealed by the DNO / Meter Operator, using a traceable seal, then there is a strong possibility that someone has intefered with the equipment since the DNO last worked on it / sealed it.

Regards,

Alan.
 20 February 2011 07:51 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



Ampman

Posts: 1009
Joined: 06 February 2006

That could be interesting. Without the correct seals on the meter / cutout, it is unlikely that the DNO / Meter Operator's insurance will pay up if it goes wrong at a later date. The householders insurance may not pay up. Working on the DNOs equipment without authority, your liability insurance may not pay up. Which leaves you


Thats why i am not going to do it .

This particular cutout is bitchum filled . TNS Clamp on cable .

The fuse holder sits on top of the plastic chamber . held on by 2 screws which are live .

Now i have a 80 carrier that will fit .

Will they come out to fit for me ?

By the way UK Power networks dont upgrade to fuses to 80 amp they told my customer .

So even if the service cable can handle 80 amp they wont supply one .

All they are after is a bigger job supplying 100 amp feeds .

Which is very unfair .

Money Grabbers
 21 February 2011 09:01 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



ant1uk

Posts: 2376
Joined: 22 June 2010

Why do you need to upgrade the fuse size anyway? unless it has blow already I really wouldn't bother. 60a in most houses is more than enough. Of course after you apply diversity to the circuits you may find you actually have some spare on the existing supply.
 21 February 2011 03:16 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



Ampman

Posts: 1009
Joined: 06 February 2006

Hi Ant

The reason behind getting a bigger fuse is the installation of 2 x 10 .5 kw showers .

Property is a B&B So the showers will be used at the same time .

91 amps of power .

It wont be long before the fuse blows me thinks .?

I Have looked at the graphs in the regs Page 244 .

According to Them a 60 amp will take 100 amps for 21mins before blowing . ?

If i read the table correctly .

cheers
 21 February 2011 03:30 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



normcall

Posts: 8120
Joined: 15 January 2005

What did they say when to told them about the additional load?

-------------------------
Norman
 21 February 2011 03:43 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



perspicacious

Posts: 7216
Joined: 18 April 2006

"Property is a B&B"

And probably classified as quite a risk already by the insurers and even more likely to have eager assessors to refute any claims by passing it back to the "guilty" party, particulary when the DNO provide evidence of their quote being refused........

Regards

BOD
 21 February 2011 03:51 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



Ampman

Posts: 1009
Joined: 06 February 2006

Yes BOD

Agreed ,

Norm ,

They not bothered about the additional load they dont know what it is ,

all i get is people behind desks who know nothing

cheers
 21 February 2011 04:06 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for ebee.
ebee

Posts: 5677
Joined: 02 December 2004

"all i get is people behind desks who know nothing "

I can remember the days when you could talk to someone who understood perfectly what you you were talking about and could give sound advice and info too. Mind you I am old!

I'll admit they could be little jobsworth adolf sh1ters but you could actually talk to them and get some sense

Nowadays I lose the will to live.

That's progress

-------------------------
Regards,
Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
 21 February 2011 04:20 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



perspicacious

Posts: 7216
Joined: 18 April 2006

"Nowadays I lose the will to live"

Even in the "good old days", I used to give my certification to the client for them to forward to the REC so that I couldn't be blamed for loss or delays as it became an arrangement between the client and REC, leaving me to get on with my life and a nickname of "Teflon"

Regards

BOD
 21 February 2011 04:32 PM
User is online View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for OMS.
OMS

Posts: 19608
Joined: 23 March 2004

to get on with my life and a nickname of "Teflon"


LoL - do you then progress to becoming a "Teflon Don" , having a morality bypass and a job in consultancy then BOD

you could actually talk to them and get some sense


I think the main difference, it was easier to get past the "Ruthies" than it is today

OMS

-------------------------
Failure is always an option
IET » Wiring and the regulations » Service fuse upgrade ,

<< 1 2 3 4 Previous Next Last unread
Topic Tools Topic Tools
Statistics

See Also:



FuseTalk Standard Edition v3.2 - © 1999-2014 FuseTalk Inc. All rights reserved.