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Topic Title: Service fuse upgrade ,
Topic Summary: How difficult to arrange ?
Created On: 18 January 2011 07:20 PM
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 18 January 2011 07:20 PM
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Ampman

Posts: 1025
Joined: 06 February 2006

Evening ,

I have been trying to arrange a service fuse upgrade for a customer in bedforshire ,

I need to upgrade to a 80/100 amp fuse due to additional loads .

at the its 60 amp .

Beleive it or i have rang so many numbers now to request this and am still getting no where .

What i have asked for is a double pole isolater , ( trying to do the job right as cutting seals is a big no no ) a upgrade of fuse & a PME Connection .

Well i ring the electricity company that supplies the house . request the above .

get put on hold for 7 mins then get cut off tried this 3 times .

then i ask for direct number to where they ringing just to be told wrong department . & given a phone number for somewhere else where they tell me to ring the orginal number i started with ?


They then tell me they cant do the work so give me a utilites number to call & they want money to do a survey and quoted over the phone over a grand to do above works .

I thought this was dear .

I can understand if the property needs a new cable to be big enough to carry 100 amps .

but it looks big enough to me on ones i have see in the past .

How do others go about getting a double pole isolater , pme,new service head swapped.

cheers

PS I arrange one a few years back no problem .
 18 January 2011 08:21 PM
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charlieroad

Posts: 150
Joined: 24 September 2007

Seimens are the ones to install the double pole isolator - although they may know it as 'self test and connect' - ask for a de-energisation and also mention you would like the isolator. They also can install the PME block at the same time - if allowable

For the upgrade you will need to contact Uk Power networks and they will send you a form for the upgrade. It is sent to you via email - Small services application form - 0845 234 0040. The quote over the phone is a figure that they pluck out of the air! (well that's what I reckon anyway)

Uk Power networks will tell you who the supplier is. The supplier will arrange for the metering services (Seimens) to visit for the de-energisation.
 18 January 2011 09:27 PM
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Ampman

Posts: 1025
Joined: 06 February 2006

Cheers

Has UK Power Networks taken over central networks ?

According to e-on website they get central networks to supply pme & change service head .
 18 January 2011 09:52 PM
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alancapon

Posts: 5790
Joined: 27 December 2005

Originally posted by: charlieroad
Seimens are the ones to install the double pole isolator - although they may know it as 'self test and connect' - ask for a de-energisation and also mention you would like the isolator. They also can install the PME block at the same time - if allowable . . .

This is also only true if Siemens are the meter supplier for the property.

. . . For the upgrade you will need to contact Uk Power networks and they will send you a form for the upgrade. . .

This is only true if you are in the area where UK Power Networks are the DNO.

Originally posted by: Ampman
Has UK Power Networks taken over central networks ?
According to e-on website they get central networks to supply pme & change service head

Then Central Networks are the people you need to talk to. There will be a form to complete and return, with details about the property, the existing load and the proposed load. There are two methods of charging by the DNOs for supplies up to 100A. Some charge a standard amount, regardless of the works, others will charge either the full or percentage of the actual cost.

The works required will depend on how much work is required to give the extra capacity. It may be just a fuse change, it may need reinforcing of network cables, or it may need a new upgraded transformer.

Regards,

Alan.
 18 January 2011 10:04 PM
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Ampman

Posts: 1025
Joined: 06 February 2006

Cheers alan,

Fingers crossed for a simple service head change & pme connection .

Cheers .

Ps I have found a phone number i can ring in the morning it cost £ 158 inc vat ,

Just for PME connection And swop head to accomodate the pme .

I will get this all done first then worry about the isolater .
 18 January 2011 10:10 PM
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Ampman

Posts: 1025
Joined: 06 February 2006

Alan .

Do they normally change the head when a pme connection has been asked for ?

Can DNO still fit 60 amp or are they all 80 amp / 100 amp installed nowadays ?

cheers
 18 January 2011 10:35 PM
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charlieroad

Posts: 150
Joined: 24 September 2007

What part of Bedfordshire?

I've just done exactly what you are asking for. Seimens were out the next day. Isolator fitted. PME block installed.
 18 January 2011 11:12 PM
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peteTLM

Posts: 3187
Joined: 31 March 2005

If you have a price from a department who knows what they are talking about, you can always avoid muddying the water and supply your own isolator for them to connect to . Its just a REC2 wylex, altough there are MEM versions as well, all custom made for the DNO. If you cant get one, just get a 2 pole main switch and get a suitable 2u enclosure.

I even saw a british gas 3 pole, main, eco7 and neutral one today!

P

-------------------------
----------------------------------------
Lack of planning on your part doesn't make it an emergency on mine....

Every man has to know his limitations- Dirty Harry
 18 January 2011 11:21 PM
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alancapon

Posts: 5790
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Originally posted by: Ampman
Do they normally change the head when a pme connection has been asked for ?

It depends on the existing earthing type and the type of cutout currently fitted.

Can DNO still fit 60 amp or are they all 80 amp / 100 amp installed nowadays ?

We fit 60A as a standard size on all domestic properties, unless additional load is requested & agreed. The software we use for calculating predicted voltage drop along LV feeders and loading on substations uses this information too. If we study an upgraded fuse, it will tell us whether the voltage drop at the end of the feeder is below that permitted, as well as telling us whether the transformer at the supplying substation has the spare capacity.

Regards,

Alan.
 18 January 2011 11:25 PM
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Testit

Posts: 2962
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Lots of links on here for http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/WYREC2S.html

Personally if I had to arrange with the DNO every time nothing would get done... probably wouldnt get any work either...

But if ur particular do as PeteTLM suggests and put it all ready for connection... the meter doesnt belong to the dno anyway, its the supplier isnt it, or their meter supplier anyway... half of the cable connections in the meter belongs to the consumer side... when I am there and they are about they have me to put all the consumer side in and just connect their tails.. the only difference is that they cut the seal and replace it... the work remains the same...

All I can say is

DUH!

-------------------------
Online Services - http://propertydevelopment.org.uk

Experience can sometimes show that cost prevails over quality and safety, such little self-value that people hold.
 18 January 2011 11:29 PM
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ant1uk

Posts: 2376
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It's almost impossible to get the DNO to come out down here they don't keep to their appointments and rearranging when they can be bothered. then when the guy turns up he says he don't mind if I remove the seals myself as they don't have time to do it..........
 19 January 2011 12:16 PM
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Ampman

Posts: 1025
Joined: 06 February 2006

CharlieRoad,

North beds did siemens change the service head from 60 to a 80/100 amp ? when they did isolater?


My customer has spoke to someone this morning & has been told that a isolater & pme will be fitted for free ?

My gut feeling is this will just be a case of a fly lead out from the existing head neutral to a choc block .

But saying that a guy i have spoke to this morning rang them 3 weeks ago to do get a pme earth terminal .

When they came they change the head & upgraded his cutout from 60 to 80 amp .

& he didnt even need a fuse upgrade .

Only problem with the service cut out i need upgrading is the fact its a pilc cable so has bitumen in it .

Is this normally a problem alan ?

Cheers
 19 January 2011 12:29 PM
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alancapon

Posts: 5790
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Originally posted by: Ampman
Only problem with the service cut out i need upgrading is the fact its a pilc cable so has bitumen in it .

Depends on the DNO. Metal cutouts can be a problem, as the change is usually done with the service cable remaining live. We do most single-phase live, but isolate with three-phase.

Regards,

Alan.
 19 January 2011 02:12 PM
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Ampman

Posts: 1025
Joined: 06 February 2006

Cheers Alan ,

Its single phase & its plastic . ( Hopefully not a issue ? )


Its a shame you do not answer the phone calls as well as do the jobs . you could be very busy .
 19 January 2011 02:41 PM
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ant1uk

Posts: 2376
Joined: 22 June 2010

The only time I've known them to do it free is when its a really old metal green service head or its one with neutral fuses.
 19 January 2011 05:43 PM
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charlieroad

Posts: 150
Joined: 24 September 2007

The PME was just added as a block attached to the neutral (from TT).
It was already a 80amp supply which was interesting as when you look at the buried run from the pole it is probably 250m away.
Volt drop was talked about when UK Power networks were onsite.

All work for free, well no extra charge. It's paid for with the standing charge isn't it?

Edited: 19 January 2011 at 05:50 PM by charlieroad
 19 January 2011 06:53 PM
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Ampman

Posts: 1025
Joined: 06 February 2006

Cheers ,

As said before it worrys me to think that is all that is being done with the one next thursday . Block onto neutral .

I can only hope
 02 February 2011 07:26 PM
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Ampman

Posts: 1025
Joined: 06 February 2006

Well still hitting my head against a brick wall ,

They sent a meter fitter

He just told my client that i could pull the fuse for disconnection .

I have been brought up not to .

I have done it a few times , never like doing it .

On this job i thought i would have time to do the right thing which was to get an isolater done ,

AS for the service head change !!!!!!

UK Power networks have quoted over a grand to install a new cable from road .

Without even coming out to look at job .

They can tell from there computers what cable sizes etc...

I have told customer to ask them now whats the maxs they can have ?

Hopefully dno say 80 amp & will change the head .


Ps Plumber on the job said just change the fuse ( He has done it before )

I refused to .

This is started to make me look silly now in front of the client

never known such hassle .
 02 February 2011 07:37 PM
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normcall

Posts: 8149
Joined: 15 January 2005

Now you know why most avoid any contact with suppliers.
I didn't loose most of my hair natural wastage, it was banging against a brick wall trying to train the assorted profit making companies that actually providing a service goes a long way rather than think of a number and double it if you want something done that they don't want to know about.
I always suggest the client gets involved and warn them exactly how it is.

It took the customer and myself 2 years to get the only TT overhead supply in a road converted to PME - then they still left the supply overhead after replacing the cable that went over two or three gardens.

-------------------------
Norman
 02 February 2011 07:47 PM
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Ampman

Posts: 1025
Joined: 06 February 2006

Norm,

Thats the other thing if they want the new cable they estimate it will be done by oct 2011

progress.....
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