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Topic Title: "Non-association Cable" tag
Topic Summary: how old?
Created On: 07 January 2011 01:07 AM
Status: Post and Reply
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 09 January 2011 09:19 PM
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AJJewsbury

Posts: 10964
Joined: 13 August 2003

Thanks for the replies - some fascinating stuff there!

So perhaps it was for the singles in the black conduit ?
Is the conduit threaded or clamp jointed ?
Is it seamless or folded construction ?

Funny you ask that - it's actually a mix! Most is the classic "folded" (or butt seamed) with screw down clamps on the elbows/tees, but a few lengths are seamless with threaded (pipe) joints - seemingly where they wanted smooth bends in inaccessible areas.

There's also rubber insulated rubber sheathed singles in the cellar without any conduit (still in use for the moment ).

See another CMA label from the day "insulated with vulcanised rubber"

Do you know anything of the history of that label Jaymack? The logo and much of the wording look identical, so presumably is of a similar vintage...

As for the other matter, I think I'll start calling it Vulcanised India Rubber Insulated (hence "VIRI") cable and chastise all those with any contrary opinions towards uncouth further brevity

- Andy.
 10 January 2011 09:52 AM
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Jaymack

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Originally posted by: AJJewsbury
Do you know anything of the history of that label Jaymack? The logo and much of the wording look identical, so presumably is of a similar vintage.


I found the label in the loft space of a stone built hotel, from the 1900's in the Hielands. Interesting historical advert on the Siemens Brothers in the link below. They must have had problems in the UK, with the outbreak of the 1st world war.

The hotel had a recent partial rewire, with nicely dressed new PVCI cables to the JB's, in comparison with the other metallic conduit installation, (with open circular conduit boxes and protruding wires with plastic terminal blocks, (an abortion by rascals as they do, you know who you are! ).
The label probably came from the conduit installation in the early/mid 1900's, was this the original installation though? I doubt it, some of these hotels were originally mansions built by tea traders and the like, they were keen to instal the latest fads, it may have been a D.C. installation, with cable in capping or on porcelain insulators ............ If only they could talk!

http://i563.photobucket.com/al...8SiemensBrothersCo.jpg
 10 January 2011 01:29 PM
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AJJewsbury

Posts: 10964
Joined: 13 August 2003

Interesting - the house dates from (we think) around 1910, so could be similar vintage. As you say, it's hard to tell whether it's original or from a subsequent re-wire.
- Andy.
 10 January 2011 03:01 PM
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kj scott

Posts: 2144
Joined: 02 April 2006

Just had alook through a 1949 BS handbook; they use the term Vulcanised Rubber Insulation; as does the War Emergency Grade cable label I have; looking on another forum it would appear that the correct term would be VRI.
Although I have always used VIR; it would seem that VIR would refer to India rubber. This is then very specific as rubber is derived from many other countries. Still no further in finding out what War emergency grade cable is though.

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 10 January 2011 06:14 PM
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perspicacious

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"Still no further in finding out what War emergency grade cable is though."

Extract from the Forward to the 12th Edition of 1st May,1950:

"Recommended War Emergency Relaxations appeared on 26th June, 1942, to take account of the scarcity of certain materials under war conditions, but these Relaxations did not form part of the Regulations. In March, 1946, a Supplement to the 1943 reprint was issued to take account of recommendations first put forward by the Study Committee on Electrical Installations, who drew up Post-war Building Studies No. 11-Electrical Installations, published by H.M. Stationery Office, in 1944, and to provide for the use of p.v.c.-insulated and - sheathed cables. With the issue of this Supplement the currency of the War Emergency Relaxations ceased."

Extract from the Forward to the 13th Edition of 1st September,1955:

"Since the issue of the 12th Edition in May, 1950, a Supplement dated 1st February, 1954, has been issued to take account of new British Standards for rubber-insulated and p.v.c.-insulated cables. A Temporary Relaxation indicating the extent to which current ratings of small cables might be relaxed during the period of stringency of supply was issued of 15th December, 1952, but did not form part of the Regulations."

Regards

BOD
 10 January 2011 06:36 PM
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perspicacious

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For those actually interested

Relaxation meant:

1/.044 5 A remains 5A
3/.029 5 A becomes 10 A
3/.036 10 A becomes 15 A
7/.029 15 A becomes 20 A

Regards

BOD
 10 January 2011 06:51 PM
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perspicacious

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"Although I have always used VIR; it would seem that VIR would refer to India rubber. This is then very specific as rubber is derived from many other countries."

From my post above:

V.I.R. cables Class H.B. 600 Megohm Specification,-H.C. tinned copper, insulated with pure and vulcanised indiarubber (sic), taped, braided, and compounded to British Engineering Standards Specification.

As good india (sic) rubber is expensive.....

In this theme......

Current derived from batteries was once called Continuous Current and only became Direct Current when Alternating Current became vogue.

It would appear not to be slang, but based on ones ability to read, research and educate oneself as an adult rather than rely on hearsay .....

Regards

BOD

Edited: 10 January 2011 at 07:02 PM by perspicacious
 10 January 2011 11:20 PM
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Jaymack

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Originally posted by: perspicacious
It would appear not to be slang, but based on ones ability to read, research and educate oneself as an adult rather than rely on hearsay .....


How pompous and patronising!
 11 January 2011 10:44 AM
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kj scott

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Thanks for info BOD; the trouble with education is; by the time you have learnt all you need to know; you're too old to use it; as there aren't many jobs for a wise old Sage. I understand that teenagers know it all; so what happens?
I think many mis-conceptions held within the industry originate from mis-information, given during initial training. Also the reluctance of the IET to release older publications as read only documents on-line.

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http://www.niceic.biz
IET » Wiring and the regulations » "Non-association Cable" tag

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