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Topic Title: Simple questions on part p
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Created On: 26 November 2010 06:20 PM
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 26 November 2010 06:20 PM
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jcm256

Posts: 1892
Joined: 01 April 2006

They are professional people on this forum and electricians who say part P is one of the simplest electrical self-certification schemes that ever was authorised by the Secretary of State to become law. Just pay your money to a private club and away you go, they say: To further the education of simpler minds that can't grasp the subject and can't get the hang of overlap, could I ask a small sample of questions below.

The scope of part P applies to fixed electrical installations in buildings or parts of buildings comprising:
. Dwelling houses and flats;
. Dwellings and business premises that have a common supply - for example, shops and public houses with a flat above;
. Common access areas in blocks of flats such as corridors and staircases (excludes power supplies to lifts);
. Shared amenities to blocks of flats such as laundries and gymnasiums;

Question 1: in a tower block what height does part P apply, is it:
(a) Ground floor & first floor
(b) Ground floor, first floor & second floor.
(c) All stories up to 22 floors and above

Part P also applies to electrical installations in gardens, where the land is associated with any of the above, and where the electricity is located within or shared with a dwelling. Any electrical installations to conservatories and outbuildings such as sheds, detached buildings, detached garages, and greenhouses are also included within the regulations. This means that buildings that would normally be exempt from the Building Regulations must still have any associated electrical work approved where necessary.

Question 2: What starts off as a small Garage and a bit of land expands into a larger garage with employees that bring in other laws and statutory instruments.
At what stage of the garage development does part P cease to apply if at all?
(a) is it when the supply from the dwelling house is removed and the Garage is provided with its own supply
(b) Is it when one employee is taken on with employee & public liability insurance?
(c) Is it when a compressors, vehicle lifts, paint shops etc are installed?
(d) When it becomes a commercial business.
(e) Is it never, does part P applies in all circumstances.

Question 3: Does Part P apply to escape lighting, if not, why not.

Question 4: What event will take to GLC England & Wales part p in December 2011.

Question 5: Why is it always spoken of as applies to England & Wales when part P applies to IOM.

Regards
Jcm
 26 November 2010 06:29 PM
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aligarjon

Posts: 2867
Joined: 09 September 2005

what does the height of accessories have to do with part P. or do you mean the height of the tower block

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Specialised Subject. The Bleedin Obvious. John Cleese
 26 November 2010 06:33 PM
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OMS

Posts: 19747
Joined: 23 March 2004

The height of the tower block - ie 22 stories and above

OMS

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Failure is always an option
 26 November 2010 06:34 PM
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alancapon

Posts: 5789
Joined: 27 December 2005

Originally posted by: jcm256
Question 5: Why is it always spoken of as applies to England & Wales when part P applies to IOM.

The UK government at Westminster sets the law of the land for England & Wales. The Isle of Man's own government set its laws. The IOM has decided to implement a "Part P" of the building regulations covering electrical works. However, the implementation of the regulation is different to the UK implementation, although the same guidance document is used. As an example, an electrician can choose direct registration with the government rather than one of the approved scheme providers. Approved scheme members also need to be registered with the government and appear on the list of approved electricians.

There are other differences in the IOM, in terms of who can or cannot work on the island without a work permit. The island is part of the British Commonwealth, not part of the UK and is an associate member of the European Union.

Regards,

Alan.
 26 November 2010 06:39 PM
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peteTLM

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Joined: 31 March 2005

q1, c is suppose as its every dwelling and associated communial areas.
q2, a, when the origin is no longer shared with the dwelling. Look at the old pub example in the guide.
q3, is does if its associated with a dwelling
q4 no idea
q5, We need Alan to elaborate, but it think IOM is a british crown dependancy, so its probably lumped in with everything else we need to have on the mainland. It might apply to the falkland islands as well for all i know.

P

ps took me ages to type and everyone replied while i was doing so.

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 26 November 2010 06:43 PM
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OMS

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Question 2: What starts off as a small Garage and a bit of land expands into a larger garage with employees that bring in other laws and statutory instruments.


Is the land and garage associated with a dwelling ? - If not, then Part P won't apply

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 26 November 2010 06:44 PM
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JonSteward

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The point your're making is what is commercial and what is domestic.
As you know part P covers domestic only. You need to decide where the cross over from domestic to commercial is or if its combined.
 27 November 2010 06:50 AM
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gkenyon

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Originally posted by: jcm256
Any electrical installations to conservatories and outbuildings such as sheds, detached buildings, detached garages, and greenhouses are also included within the regulations. This means that buildings that would normally be exempt from the Building Regulations must still have any associated electrical work approved where necessary.
Interesting on detached outbuildings: Approved Document P says that whilst the "techncial requirement" of Part P applies to them, the "notification requirement" does not - see note f page 8:

In other words, it's little different to a normal workplace - because if it's a workplace, then you're on full CDM risk assessments for the "whole lifecycle", i.e. assess safety in use as opposed to just construction / disposal / maintenance considerations for domestic, in addition to Electricity at Work Regs, PUWER, etc.

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Eur Ing Graham Kenyon CEng MIET TechIOSH
 28 November 2010 06:52 PM
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jcm256

Posts: 1892
Joined: 01 April 2006

Thanks for the replies; Taken in good faith from your answers would be:

(Question 1) Yes, part p would apply to every flat or dwelling in a tower block.

(Question 2) not sure just a maybe, they are thousands of little (and large) working garages around the country still supplied from adjacent dwelling house and sometimes the other way around.

(Question 3) the only reason asked that question was the statement below from a LA site

Fixed electrical installation work means any part of, or any controls associated with:
a) fixed internal or external lighting installations, but does not include emergency escape lighting or specialist process lighting; or
b) electric heating or electric hot water service.
The answer that was given is understood but unusually for the provider of the answer a bit short on detail it's like being given a little formula for the area of circle = pi*r*r where PI = approximately 3.1415 and told go away and work out the area to get some marks. That's the poor teaching methods they are talking about at the moment it just proves that you can do a small sum. Good teaching would be telling you how the formula came about and where the 3.1415... came from then the recipients would better understand the answer.
(Question4). That was a question surprised no one brought up before but it's to do with the BR in Wales only.
(Question5) Reply was understood but that what was said is for immigrants only, may not apply to any visiting professional or electrician to IOM carrying out statutory duty or none statutory inspections which are just part of a mainland portfolio.
Thanks for your replies.
Regards
jcm
 28 November 2010 07:16 PM
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alancapon

Posts: 5789
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Originally posted by: jcm256
(Question5) Reply was understood but that what was said is for immigrants only, may not apply to any visiting professional or electrician to IOM carrying out statutory duty or none statutory inspections which are just part of a mainland portfolio.

Not quite. The requirement for work permits is for anyone who is not classed as an "Island Worker". In the case you suggest, a work permit would be required for a visiting worker if the temporary work lasts for more than three days or multiple visits exceed 10 working days in a 12 month period.

Regards,

Alan.

Edit: You should also be aware that here, electricians are not allowed to remove cutout seals, cutout fuses or meter terminal cover seals. Action is always taken against anyone interfering with supplier's equipment.

Edited: 28 November 2010 at 09:13 PM by alancapon
 28 November 2010 10:08 PM
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jcm256

Posts: 1892
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Thanks for that Alan, wonderful what you learn (40 years old that regulation to) Worked in IOM carrying out inspections under LOLER & PUWER plus none statutory electrical & mechanical plant & machinery inspections. No one mentioned that IOM protectionist law to me in weekly visits at intervals over three years. However (not again) pity the poor electrician going over to the IOM to do a bit of installation work as well as part P payment to the government double whammy £40 also to the Government for work permit.
http://www.gov.im/lib/docs/ded...itsintheisleofman.pdf

Regards
jcm
 28 November 2010 10:24 PM
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alancapon

Posts: 5789
Joined: 27 December 2005

Our famous one a few years ago, involved the TV detector vans & crews being deported, as they had no work permits.

Regards,

Alan.
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