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Topic Title: Placing a CU in The meter cupboard
Topic Summary: Any reg why not
Created On: 30 September 2010 08:27 PM
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 30 September 2010 08:27 PM
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1652

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Old house with an old CU. Fuses etc. CU is in an awful location in the house.

I need to run a supply to the garage any reason for not:

Fitting a twin service block in the flush fitted (built in) Meter cupboard which is in the side of the house then.

Fitting a small IP rated CU with an RCD and then running SWA to the garage.

Just seems the easest way of getting power to the garage. Owner want to run a welder so the option of an RCD fused spur 13 amp supply is out of the question.
 30 September 2010 08:42 PM
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peteTLM

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They cant object to a customers 'isolator' being in there, so use a suitably rated double pole mcb in a SMALL enclosure to protect the swa.
Save the rcd for the new board in the garage you will need to have.
Why do you want an rcd in the box with the meter?

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 30 September 2010 08:48 PM
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alancapon

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It could depend on the DNO. My employer requires that the meter box is used solely for housing the supplier's equipment, and must not contain customer equipment.

The DNO may also have views on the welder, depending on its size and how often it is used. They can quite easily lead to flickering lights in the immediate vicinity.

Regards,

Alan.
 30 September 2010 08:48 PM
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1652

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Thanks Pete.

Was going to install a 40Amp 30ma RCD as the main swtich in a 2 way CU.

It dont matter were the RCD goes either in the garage or the Meter cupboard, as long as one is one the supply somewhere. Also it adds extra protection for the cable.

Many thanks.
 30 September 2010 08:52 PM
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1652

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Alan does that mean the Customers isolator cant be in there as pete said.

What about these clamp meters everyone seems to be getting also?

I have seen on some council properties that a 100 Amp RCD has been installed in the meter cupboard to provice RCD protection for old fused CU's.

mmmmmmmmmm
 30 September 2010 09:04 PM
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alancapon

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With us, it would have to be with agreement.

In the meter box, we need to have space to fit a cutout, a meter (remembering that smart meters may be larger and also have an interface box for connection of inputs from gas and / or water meters), a timeclock or RTS receiver and the supplier's isolator (where fitted). We also require space for a second cutout, which allows us to run a temporary cable to / from an adjacent property. When we have a service cable fail, it is sometimes more convenient to run in a temporary to get the customer back on. We can then attend to the fault during the daytime / daylight.


Regards,

Alan.
 30 September 2010 09:11 PM
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slittle

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In my parts, it's very much frowned upon as well.

The box is for the DNO, if you want to do something "outside" then do it in your own box next to it is generally the rule.

At home, the SWA from my generator routes through the bottom of the meter box to get it neatly into the house to the changeover switch with the tails and that has received several comments over the years although I have found that copious amounts of tea normally solves that issue.

Stu
 30 September 2010 10:35 PM
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pmenetwork

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i wont enlarge on alan and slittles excellent replies, just to say that if that welder was installed and caused problems for other consumers, the dno would soon pop along to discon. on offer there may be an additional phase to be fitted at a reasonable cost of course.
as regards the "customers isolator," alan continues to correct, its actually the suppliers property. it is a convienience switch for initial
connection by the contractor. after that the supplier, through his meter operator can remove it if it is in the way of new larger equipment.
 30 September 2010 10:43 PM
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ant1uk

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Originally posted by: pmenetwork

dno would soon pop along to discon.


They take about a year to come out round here!
 01 October 2010 12:50 PM
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TJWatts

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In my experience of one box (my own), EDF (SEEBOARD) weren't "by the book" happy about me fitting a Wylex REC2S 100A DP isolator (it's pretty small as you know) - but as with everything, having a tidy box, neatly run tails and MET and a EIC handy with Megger hanging up nearby conspicuously brought the chap around and he said it was fine in the end subject to the proviso that they might have to request removal it in the future to permit extra equipment to be housed - which is about as reasonable as you can get.

This was a LABC notified DIY job BTW, so we had to go through the "what's your NICEIC number?" "I don't have one" stuff first... hence the massive attention to neatness - usually works
 01 October 2010 02:56 PM
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DALEC

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i think the problem could also be if you get problems with dno and a jobsworth gives it the old " ello ello wot av we ere young man " questions may also be asked who withdrew the fuse to allow the service blocks fitting... just out of curiosity has any body on here ever actually been or heard of anyone being dragged over the coals for service fuse withdrawal.?
dale

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 01 October 2010 06:18 PM
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alancapon

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Originally posted by: DALEC
... just out of curiosity has any body on here ever actually been or heard of anyone being dragged over the coals for service fuse withdrawal.?

We do on every occasion it is discovered. It is a very rare occurrence and all electricians book a withdrawal and replacement with our customer services team. One added twist, is that for domestic works, the paperwork can only be completed by an electrician on our governments "Part P" list of electricians.

Regards,

Alan.
 01 October 2010 08:26 PM
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spinlondon

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The meter cupboard is not the property of the DNO.
Unless what you are proposing is dangerous, I can't see how the DNO could object to putting whatever you want into the cupboard.
I don't quite understand why you want to protect SWA with an RCD.
I'd probablly run the SWA to the garage to a small CU for lights power and the welder. Either use an RCBO for the power, or an RCD socket. Install a 20A switched socket, or isolator and separate 20A socket for the welder.
That way, there'd be no requirement to RCD protect the welder socket.
 01 October 2010 08:53 PM
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tonyericsson

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Originally posted by: spinlondon

The meter cupboard is not the property of the DNO.

Unless what you are proposing is dangerous, I can't see how the DNO could object to putting whatever you want into the cupboard.

I don't quite understand why you want to protect SWA with an RCD.

I'd probablly run the SWA to the garage to a small CU for lights power and the welder. Either use an RCBO for the power, or an RCD socket. Install a 20A switched socket, or isolator and separate 20A socket for the welder.

That way, there'd be no requirement to RCD protect the welder socket.


Good advice spin. Agree.
And the welder socket would need to have a 'specific label' for the 'welder'
 01 October 2010 08:58 PM
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alancapon

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Originally posted by: spinlondon
. . . Unless what you are proposing is dangerous, I can't see how the DNO could object to putting whatever you want into the cupboard. . .

It probably has something to do with the terms and conditions the customer signed when they either took the supply, or had the meter box installed. Something like "the meter box shall be for the sole and exclusive use of the supplier to provide a supply of electricity". It may not be your problem but sooner or later it may be your customers problem.


Regards,

Alan.
 01 October 2010 09:04 PM
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tonyericsson

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At some point though we need to earn a living and I have also put equipment in the customers spply intake box, there was no where else to put it. The intake box that the customer paid for but with the customers express permission and advising him that the DNO might not be best pleased but they probably won't worry iether.

Alan, as DNO you must be far to busy dealing with genuine problems to worry about good workmanship in your boxes aren't you?

That may have come out slightly wrong, no offence meant Alan.

But you see boxes with doors hanging, back plates rotten etc etc so I would imagine this issue is far down the line of priorities.
 01 October 2010 09:17 PM
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alancapon

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Originally posted by: tonyericsson
Alan, as DNO you must be far to busy dealing with genuine problems to worry about good workmanship in your boxes aren't you?

Here, it would be picked up at the meter read following its installation. The customer would then be asked to remove it. To be honest, we don't generally have a problem as the electricians here know that they cannot put customer equipment in the meter box, in the same way as they know not to remove seals on either the cutout or metering equipment.

Regards,

Alan.
 01 October 2010 09:23 PM
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tonyericsson

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Our supplier issues paper seals to repeat offenders.

I have only put stuff in the cupboard twice, one on my job and one for someone elses. On the one I was responsible for the customer was told the situation and was of the opinion that the box cost him a lot of money and that it belonged to him. He has a pont.

Besides, the equipment only replaced the position of the existing large black enclosure with 100A MCB so the DNO had left np room for other equipment any way, so nothing lost.
 01 October 2010 11:01 PM
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pmenetwork

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if you would like to see the effect of consumers equipment on dnos board have a look at the post, "shambolic commercial installation" today!
 01 October 2010 11:26 PM
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Phillron

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I have always found the guys working with Western power reasonable about using "their" box

In the end,its put there for the supplier to use,if they want the spare capacity for future, thats a done deal,whether the customer paid for it or not
It has, for as long as I can remember, been the unwritten rule,"dont put your equipment on their board/in their box" why do people see it as a problem ?
If you want to use it,ask,if they say no,move on
IET » Wiring and the regulations » Placing a CU in The meter cupboard

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