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Topic Title: Asbestos removal work
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Created On: 06 September 2010 07:49 PM
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 06 September 2010 07:49 PM
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JonSteward

Posts: 582
Joined: 04 December 2007

Got an estimate from an asbestos removal firm to remove asbestos flash guards and replace with equivalent rated glass fabris cloth. There are about a dozen boards with maybe 100 circuits £900. The cost seems reasonable but wondered what others may have experienced when making asbostos flash guards boards safe for continued service.
 06 September 2010 08:44 PM
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beanster666

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Save yourself £800 and remove the flash guards yourself using the correct ppe following the relevant HSE guidelines and dispose of the flash guards via a local licenced waste management centre.
Don't suppose changing the re-wireable carriers for enclosed fuse carriers is an option? If so leave the guards out!
 06 September 2010 09:05 PM
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Phillron

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Probably cheaper do it yourself as suggested

If unsure of procedures go on a one day asbestos awareness course for handling the stuff
Save money and get qualified with the savings
 07 September 2010 06:08 AM
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GeoffBlackwell

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Look here.

Regards

Geoff Blackwell
 07 September 2010 06:42 AM
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JonSteward

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Thank you.
Its does now look fairly easy to do, as this work requires no special liscence, only PPE, hire a type H vacuum, a bucket and rag, clear bags and some tape. Oh, and one of those awareness courses. Just need to source the replacement flash gaurds and I'm sorted..
Cheers.
 07 September 2010 09:34 AM
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seeker

Posts: 319
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Originally posted by: JonSteward

Thank you.

Its does now look fairly easy to do, as this work requires no special liscence, only PPE, hire a type H vacuum, a bucket and rag, clear bags and some tape. Oh, and one of those awareness courses. Just need to source the replacement flash gaurds and I'm sorted..

Cheers.


As with most other Elf n safety stuff it becomes eggagerated by people trying to make a fast buck or a name for themselves. How many mugs have the Asbestos Contractors taken for a ride already?
 07 September 2010 06:12 PM
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John Peckham

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Seeker

I will be sure to let the widows of my old colleagues who have died of mesotheloma the risks are exagerated, should I bump in to them.

These guys died 30 years after last working on or near asbestos. I have heard another old colleague has contracted the disease 40 years after the event. There is no cure and it is always fatal. The final days are painful for the individual and painful for family and friends to see.

My advice is leave well alone as it only takes one fibre to lodge in the lung and 10-30 years later for the symptoms to exhibit themselves.

It matters not if it is white, brown or blue as you are comparing the calibar of bullet to be shot in the head with.

The HSE advice I note does not deal with decontaminating the PPE or the vacuum cleaner.?

-------------------------
John Peckham

http://www.astutetechnicalservices.co.uk/
 07 September 2010 06:34 PM
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JonSteward

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According to the estimate received. They state that 'the works are not anticipated to generate airbourne fibre' and that the work will be carried out under locally controlled conditions. So I think they are basically saying that its not a particularly risky job. They also state that no electrical or mechanical disconnection is included, so you can add that to the cost.
 07 September 2010 08:49 PM
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FizzleBang

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I'm with John.

I assume that the £900 isn't coming out of the OP's own pocket, so why even give it a second thought?

I know I have been exposed to asbestos on various occasions over the years. I've seen 1 old colleague die of mesothelioma and another, nearer my age, recently got the diagnosis. The diagnosis alone has shattered him, the disease is in the early stages.

Let someone else take the risk, however small.

Paul

-------------------------
To me, to you
 07 September 2010 08:59 PM
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slittle

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Our way of dealing with them is to isolate the board and remove all the outgoing circuits by cutting the conductors above the fuse carriers.
Then close the door and remove the whole board from the wall (with the aid of a suitable leverage device, double wrap it and send it off to the place that these things go.

Granted that there may be loose fibres inside the door when it's opened, but other than that small risk it seems a reasonable way of dealing with it. We don't disturb the flash pads at all as the carriers don't get withdrawn.

It works fine as long as you can change the board, probably not ideal in the OP's case.

I really don't want to die a long and painful death from it so if I was in his position I'd put an appropriate mark up on the £900 and pass it on to the customer.


Stu
 07 September 2010 09:01 PM
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alancapon

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Originally posted by: JonSteward
. . . They state that 'the works are not anticipated to generate airbourne fibre' and that the work will be carried out under locally controlled conditions. . .

This usually means setting up a polythene "tent" round the equipment, sealed as far as possible, with an air pressure slightly less than outside. Although fibres may be released by the removal process, due to the pressure difference inside the tent, they will not escape. There is also usually an airlock and a changing area within the tent to guard against the release of fibres. As JP said, it only takes one fibre to cause mesothelioma.

Regards,

Alan.
 07 September 2010 09:35 PM
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rocknroll

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Sensible advice from JP, Fizzbang and all the rest, we probably deal with a lot more asbestos you will see and we dont take chances, we leave to the specialists, the end result is quite nasty, the removal or making safe of the asbestos problem is the responsibility of the owner/duty holder or whatever not yours and safety does have a price to pay.

regards

-------------------------
"Take nothing but a picture,
leave nothing but footprints!"
-------------------------
"Oh! The drama of it all."
-------------------------
"You can throw all the philosophy you like at the problem, but at the end of the day it's just basic electrical theory!"
-------------------------
 07 September 2010 09:48 PM
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Cremeegg

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All this one fibre can kill needs to be put into perspective.

An asbestos analyst taking air samples after an asbestos removal job tests to the agreed HSE standard of 0.01 fibres per cubic millilitre of air. Anything up to this level is declared "safe". Put another way that's 10,000 fibres per cubic metre of air. Take your average lounge say 4m by 3m by 2.5m - say 30 cubic metres. At the safe level that's 300,000 fibres in the room and it's considered "safe" or "clean".

There are many practical reasons why the levels are so high - all to do with the use of optical microscopes.

So just think about the levels the public are exposed to even today walking past building sites - plenty of asbestos cement around still that is frequently smashed up. Then think about the huge amount still floating around the London Tube network.

If one fibre really did kill we'd all be dead long ago.

Nasty stuff but get it in perspective please.
 07 September 2010 09:55 PM
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savcab

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i would check with your liability insurer prior to undertaking work yourself without any training or risk assessments in place. i would certainly leave it to someone else but thats through personal choice. im sure ive been exposed to asbestos fibres on numerous jobs in the past and hype or not i will do my damnest to avoid the stuff.

i come accross flashpads all the time and its my personal choice that if i suspect it is in the fuse holder i check the asbestos register where applicable and if it says assume then i go back to the duty holder and it is up to them to decide on the next course of action.
 08 September 2010 05:08 AM
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JonSteward

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Scary stuff. I suppose thats why they charge what they charge. A short life expectancy no doubt. I'm no asbestos expert so best left to those that are.
 01 October 2013 09:40 PM
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kj scott

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Originally posted by: JonSteward

Got an estimate from an asbestos removal firm to remove asbestos flash guards and replace with equivalent rated glass fabris cloth. There are about a dozen boards with maybe 100 circuits £900. The cost seems reasonable but wondered what others may have experienced when making asbostos flash guards boards safe for continued service.


Why not get them to quote to take the DB's away and dispose of them?
Have you had training in asbestos removal?
Are the replacement components approved by the DB manufacturer to meet their original test performance under fault conditions?
If you read em33, you will see that they also cross reference further reading, PPE, Decontamination, type of vacuum required etc. Also they suggest that you consider replacement of the DB and the em33 procedure for component replacement is unworkable.

-------------------------
http://www.niceic.biz
 01 October 2013 09:57 PM
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slittle

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I know where there's some more courses running soon Keith....

There's a whole load more questions for the trainer too since the last course.


Stu
 02 October 2013 08:01 AM
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kj scott

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This is a link to the JIB website; where they are currently campaigning for greater awareness of asbestos which is a rising killer. It has a video from Alan North a past president of the ECA who is suffering from mesothelioma.

www.jib.org.uk

Asbestos is something that we should all be very aware and cautious of.

-------------------------
http://www.niceic.biz
 06 February 2014 07:59 AM
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mudassar1

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I've been told that there's <a name="Link removed/asbestos_work.htm">asbestos work</a> in the basement of my work place. My employers have said that there was extensive worked carried out in 2006 to remove it but i have doubts. I've asked to see the report from than landlord but until them i have a question. By law can i refuse to work in these specific areas/conditions but still receive full pay?
 06 February 2014 08:13 AM
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mudassar1

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I've been told that there's asbestos work in the basement of my work place. My employers have said that there was extensive worked carried out in 2006 to remove it but i have doubts. I've asked to see the report from than landlord but until them i have a question. By law can i refuse to work in these specific areas/conditions but still receive full pay?

Edited: 06 February 2014 at 08:20 AM by mudassar1
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