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Topic Title: Bathroom Zones
Topic Summary: Light switch
Created On: 22 February 2010 10:02 PM
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 22 February 2010 10:02 PM
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nige296

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Can anybody confirm that I can place a dimmer light switch in the outside zone just longer than O.6m from the bath? in ref to the "Green Building Regulations Pam"
 22 February 2010 10:07 PM
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daveparry1

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Although outside the zones it needs to be suitable for the environment/location which is unlikely for a dimmer switch,
Dave.
 23 February 2010 10:03 AM
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hifly

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Have you thought about a dimming pull switch?

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Ma...All/Dimpull/index.html

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 23 February 2010 10:18 AM
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Partizannka

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Originally posted by: hifly

Have you thought about a dimming pull switch?



Link removed/Ma...All/Dimpull/index.html


Why can't it be used in the bathrooms with fans?

Ann
Bathrooms Evolutions
 23 February 2010 10:30 AM
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AJJewsbury

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Why can't it be used in the bathrooms with fans?

Fans don't like being "dimmed" - presumably this unit doesn't have a switched, but not dimmed, output.
- Andy.
 23 February 2010 06:27 PM
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sparkingchip

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If the ceiling height is 2.300 metres and there is shower head is at 2.250 metres can the dimming pull switch be situated over the bath along with non IP rated down lights?

If not how far away from the bath can they go, seeing as zone 3 no longer exists or zone 2 above zone 1?

Andy

Edited: 23 February 2010 at 07:56 PM by sparkingchip
 23 February 2010 07:38 PM
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nige296

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Great news thanks
 23 February 2010 07:54 PM
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sparkingchip

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I will clarify the question.

On page 169 of the regs book in figure 701.2 there is no longer a zone 2 above zone 1 as there was in the 16th edition.

On page 167 reg. 701.55 details what is allowable in zones 0 and 1, but not zone 2 or out of zone.

On page 70 of the onsite guide table 8.1 states there is not a requirement for a minimum degree of protection for equipment out of zones and general rules apply.

So are these "general rules" as applicable to a bathroom containing a shower detailed some where, if so is that 701.512.2 where it mentions water jets for cleaning purposes? That however does not give the impression it is intended to cover a Shower.

More to the point do we stick to the old 16th regs and pretend all the zones 2 and 3 are still used to cover ourselves or can we be more liberal in the choice of electrical equipment in a bathroom?



Andy
 23 February 2010 08:34 PM
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sparkingchip

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I am starting to get the feeling everyone is still working to the 16th when it comes to bathroom zones and ignoring the 17th.

Andy
 23 February 2010 09:58 PM
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sparkingchip

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definitely!
 24 February 2010 12:48 PM
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SandyBoiler

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I'm guessing the ceiling height in the vast majority of domestic bathrooms wouldn't be above 2.25m so normally there wouldn't be an outside zone above the bath. If there was, any equipment would still have to meet "general requirements" e.g. section 512.2 and 522.3.1. and therefore need to be ip rated, probably IPX4. IPX5 might be better, although only because of the potential for, how shall I put it...carlessness of users....

As for the op, I think the "outside zones" dimmer would need to be at least IPX3 -- not sure if you can get these?

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Andy B
 24 February 2010 01:53 PM
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SandyBoiler

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I guess what sparkingchip is getting at is that section 8 of the OSG taken by itself could be quite misleading. Table 8.1 states the minimum degree of protection for outside the zones as "No requirement" and states "accessories allowed". -- some might interpret this as meaning a non-ip rated switch outside the zones is always okay. The electrician's guide to the building regs has a similar table but expands on it...

"a plate switch is allowed outside the zones of a bathroom...and must be suitable for the location...cord-operated switches...are recommended for bathrooms and shower rooms"...

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Andy B
 24 February 2010 08:34 PM
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sparkingchip

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I have to disagree about the general ceiling heights.

For some where around a hundred years there was a requirement that ceiling height in domestic properties had to be at least 7'6" which is around 2.300 metres, this was a Public Health Act requirement to ensure adequate ventilation for gas lights, this requirement changed around twenty years ago as there is not generally a requirement to cover gas light installations. However generally ceilings still go in at least 2.300 giving 50mm out of zones across the entire ceiling, enough for a light fitting to be clear of zones 1 and 2 such as an down light recessed into the ceiling.

I have the green cover 2005 edition of the IEE Electricians guide to the Building Regulations (16th edition) in front of me, on page 61 under the heading Luminaires (Light fittings) it says 230V fittings can be installed above a shower or bath but they must be IPX4 i.e. enclosed and water protected unless mounted at a height of more than three metres. If installed more than than 0.6 metres from the edge of a bath or shower basin, no special fitting is required but the lumiare must be a suitable design for the conditions.

The 3.000 metres stated was the upper limit of zone 2 above the bath, but zone 2 is not there any more, so the upper limit of the zones is now 2.25.

So that would indicate that the height you can have a non IP rated luminaire has dropped by 750mm (2'6" in olden days).

So I have this situation tomorrow and I am fitting IP rated down lights although they are out of zones, therefore I am complying with the former 16th regs and exceeding the current requirements of the 17th, or is someone going to point the reg out in the 17th requiring them to be IP rated?

Andy

edit- just for fun lets stick to the regs book itself, not books giving guidance on how to comply with the regs unless they are published by the IET or IEE
 24 February 2010 09:10 PM
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SandyBoiler

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Point taken about ceiling heights, hadn't really thought that one through...

is someone going to point the reg out in the 17th requiring them to be IP rated?


I suggested before that section 512.2 and 522.3.1 might be relevant, what do you think?

In the current edition of the EGTTBR (17th edition, 2009 reprint) the section about luminaires in bathrooms is on page 65. It reads exactly the same as in your edition except it omits that bit that reads "unless mounted at a height of more than 3 metres". So the EGTTBR's guidance, at least, if anything has become more strict, not more relaxed.

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Andy B
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