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Topic Title: Replacing an MCB with an RCBO
Topic Summary: Minor Works or full EIC?
Created On: 15 September 2009 02:22 PM
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 15 September 2009 02:22 PM
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74jools

Posts: 408
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When adding socket outlets to an existing circuit which under current regulations require RCD protection, is the replacement of the MCB with an RCBO still certifiable under the Minor Works cert, or should we be using up more trees and issue an EIC? (Suspect I know the answer from the Purists on the forum )

Julian
 15 September 2009 02:33 PM
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anastasis

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I would say that it's OK to use a Minor Works Certificate.

The MWC notes say "additions and alterations to an installation that do not extend to the provision of a new circuit... not for the replacement of distribution boards or similar items".

I'd say replacing an MCB with an RCBO of the same type and rating is an alteration to an installation, it's definitely not a new circuit, and it's far short of a DB replacement.

If you fitted an RCD to the circuit between the DB and the first socket, would you consider that required an EIC? If not, then moving the RCD into the DB in the form of an RCBO is an equivalent task.
 15 September 2009 02:35 PM
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74jools

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Originally posted by: anastasis

I would say that it's OK to use a Minor Works Certificate.



The MWC notes say "additions and alterations to an installation that do not extend to the provision of a new circuit... not for the replacement of distribution boards or similar items".



I'd say replacing an MCB with an RCBO of the same type and rating is an alteration to an installation, it's definitely not a new circuit, and it's far short of a DB replacement.



If you fitted an RCD to the circuit between the DB and the first socket, would you consider that required an EIC? If not, then moving the RCD into the DB in the form of an RCBO is an equivalent task.


I quite agree, but watch this space!
 15 September 2009 05:20 PM
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spinlondon

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Minor.
 15 September 2009 05:25 PM
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OMS

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Are you not changing the circuit protective device characteristics then - chances of you getting a replacement Type B RCBO for example are not as great as you might think.

Overall probably a MWC certificate - but potentially a EIC dependant on what you actually do to that CPD.

Regards

OMS

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Failure is always an option
 15 September 2009 06:34 PM
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spinlondon

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Of course if you are worried about trees, you could use one EIC for the 2 jobs, or 2 MWCs.
 15 September 2009 06:37 PM
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OMS

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Originally posted by: spinlondon

Of course if you are worried about trees, you could use one EIC for the 2 jobs, or 2 MWCs.


I like that approach - covers all the bases

Regards

OMS

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Failure is always an option
 15 September 2009 07:43 PM
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74jools

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Originally posted by: spinlondon

Of course if you are worried about trees, you could use one EIC for the 2 jobs, or 2 MWCs.


Why would I need two MWC's if the replacement type B RCBO is for the very same circuit that has an additional socket added to it? Surely one MWC for one circuit.
 15 September 2009 07:57 PM
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frspikeyhead

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Firstly I would PIR the whole installation, then issue a EIC for the removal of the MCB and a second EIC for the addition of the new RCBO, not forgetting the issue of a DAnger notification for not having RCD protection in the first place. Then I would send them a bill for £2000. Am having a bad day.
 15 September 2009 08:17 PM
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CarlCosby

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Originally posted by: 74jools

Originally posted by: spinlondon



Of course if you are worried about trees, you could use one EIC for the 2 jobs, or 2 MWCs.




Why would I need two MWC's if the replacement type B RCBO is for the very same circuit that has an additional socket added to it? Surely one MWC for one circuit.


Because your supplying an additional DSO - MWC and your installing an RCBO in place of an MCB - MWC

Regards

Carl

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Regards
Carl
 15 September 2009 10:28 PM
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PatHammond

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Originally posted by: frspikeyhead

Firstly I would PIR the whole installation, then issue a EIC for the removal of the MCB and a second EIC for the addition of the new RCBO, not forgetting the issue of a DAnger notification for not having RCD protection in the first place. Then I would send them a bill for £2000. Am having a bad day.


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4.5 day wonder...had to start somewhere
 16 September 2009 05:47 AM
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MrP

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As per Spinlondon previous post we should be thinking about the trees but don't forget your disboard schedule identifying each circuit together your periodic sticker, rcd press button sticker and which ever certification 1 or 5 pages what ever turns you on, any LBC notification if required, product information of the installed equipment and more importantly the invoice

if not a tree maybe a large branch sacrificed to change a breaker

MrP Eid starts this weekend and off to dive in Oman and if lucky may get a ride on OMS's train
 16 September 2009 10:07 AM
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OMS

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if lucky may get a ride on OMS's train


LoL - not so much the train but the stations

Regards

OMS

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Failure is always an option
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