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Topic Title: Fire Alarm BS 5839-6 Grade B Category LD2
Topic Summary: Large dwelling Exceeding 200m2
Created On: 25 November 2008 07:22 PM
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 25 November 2008 07:22 PM
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paulburns

Posts: 192
Joined: 21 August 2005

Hi all,
Tonight im sitting down to price 2 large dwellings for the complete electrical installation, the notes in the plans referring to smoke alarms state that because 1 or more storey of building exceeds 200m2 the alarm system must meet BS5839-6 at least grade B and Category LD2, i havnt had any previous experience in installing this type of system in a domestic dwelling as most houses i wire fall below the 200m2.
What im hoping you can help me with is a quality system to install, which manufacturer and any relevant links to their website, or where to purchase.
I have been Googling the BS number and reading what i can find, my understading is i need a stand alone panel with the zones wired back to this, i have a good understanding of where the detector/sounders need to be to meet the standard required, what is not obviously clear to me is whether i should use seperate detectors and sounders or whether i can use a combined unit.I estimate approx 11-12 detectors per dwelling. Also is it a requirement of BS 5839-6 to use Fire resisting cable or is it whatever the local building controls require?
Sorry for the long winded post,
Looking forward to your educated replies.
Regards Paul.

-------------------------
The one who snores the loudest will fall asleep first.
(one who criticizes is often oblivious to his own faults)
Criticism must be used lightly,A gentle wind kindles,while a strong wind kills the fire.

Edited: 25 November 2008 at 07:42 PM by paulburns
 25 November 2008 07:32 PM
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perspicacious

Posts: 7199
Joined: 18 April 2006

"i have a good understanding of where the detector/sounders need to be to meet the standard required, what is not obviously clear to me is whether i have to use seperate detectors and sounders or whether i can use a combined unit"

Are you prepared to sign the design?

Regards

BOD
 25 November 2008 07:40 PM
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paulburns

Posts: 192
Joined: 21 August 2005

Yes!

-------------------------
The one who snores the loudest will fall asleep first.
(one who criticizes is often oblivious to his own faults)
Criticism must be used lightly,A gentle wind kindles,while a strong wind kills the fire.
 25 November 2008 07:43 PM
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perspicacious

Posts: 7199
Joined: 18 April 2006

Will there be enough room on the certificate for all the forum respondent's signatures?

Regards

BOD
 25 November 2008 07:46 PM
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paulburns

Posts: 192
Joined: 21 August 2005

All im asking for is a little assistance, i thought that was the purpose of not only this forum but forums in general.
Regards Paul.

-------------------------
The one who snores the loudest will fall asleep first.
(one who criticizes is often oblivious to his own faults)
Criticism must be used lightly,A gentle wind kindles,while a strong wind kills the fire.
 25 November 2008 07:56 PM
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perspicacious

Posts: 7199
Joined: 18 April 2006

"All im asking for is a little assistance, i thought that was the purpose of not only this forum but forums in general."

Perhaps meeting us half way by having a copy of BS 5839-6:2004 and then asking for help in understanding various clauses would be better received?

The last paragraph on p63 is worth reading.

Regards

BOD
 25 November 2008 08:04 PM
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michaelbrett

Posts: 930
Joined: 28 December 2005

With such a 'large' system, I would be inclined to talk to Building Control first. Sort out local requirements emphasising you are referencing BS5839 et al. Then, I suggest that you talk to one of the (fire panel) equipment suppliers and ask them to help with the design.

A lot of the equipment suppliers also offer a commissioning service (which, of course, is chargeable).

Regards

Mike
 25 November 2008 08:11 PM
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perspicacious

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"A lot of the equipment suppliers also offer a commissioning service"

All the commissioning certificates I've seen are "modified" to omit the tick box [The documentation described in Clause 40 of Bs 5839-1:2002 has been provided to the user.]

Regards

BOD
 25 November 2008 08:15 PM
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paulburns

Posts: 192
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Originally posted by: perspicacious


Perhaps meeting us half way by having a copy of BS 5839-6:2004 and then asking for help in understanding various clauses would be better received?



The last paragraph on p63 is worth reading.



Regards



BOD



Prehaps i should invite you over here to Northern Ireland Bod, and let you install the cabling for the fire alarm, commission it and sign it of, do you think that would result in the end of your ****ing condescending replies?

I enjoy reading this forum and using it from time to time, i do not pretend to be the greatest spark in the world or to have an infinite grasp on all things electrical im just a spark and family man trying to make a living.
Thanks for your replies anyway.

-------------------------
The one who snores the loudest will fall asleep first.
(one who criticizes is often oblivious to his own faults)
Criticism must be used lightly,A gentle wind kindles,while a strong wind kills the fire.
 25 November 2008 08:21 PM
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paulburns

Posts: 192
Joined: 21 August 2005

Thanks Mike for your reply,
I think i`ll have a look in the yellow pages or ask the wholesalers to recommend someone to assist.
Regards Paul.

-------------------------
The one who snores the loudest will fall asleep first.
(one who criticizes is often oblivious to his own faults)
Criticism must be used lightly,A gentle wind kindles,while a strong wind kills the fire.
 25 November 2008 08:21 PM
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perspicacious

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"Prehaps i should invite you over here to Northern Ireland Bod, and let you install the cabling for the fire alarm, commission it and sign it of, do you think that would result in the end of your ****ing condescending replies?
I enjoy reading this forum and using it from time to time, i do not pretend to be the greatest spark in the world or to have an infinite grasp on all things electrical im just a spark and family man trying to make a living.
Thanks for your replies anyway."

If it would make "2 large dwellings" safe for families

Regards

BOD
 25 November 2008 08:28 PM
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paulburns

Posts: 192
Joined: 21 August 2005

Originally posted by: perspicacious[/i

If it would make "2 large dwellings" safe for families



Regards



BOD



Are you suggesting that because i have asked a question in this forum that my work is substandard, as i said in original post im sitting down to price these jobs, i havnt been given any contract as yet and if i am lucky enough to win the contract all work will be carried out to a high standard and will meet all current wiring regs and building regs.

-------------------------
The one who snores the loudest will fall asleep first.
(one who criticizes is often oblivious to his own faults)
Criticism must be used lightly,A gentle wind kindles,while a strong wind kills the fire.
 25 November 2008 09:27 PM
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michaelbrett

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Bod

Since I don't install a lot of fire panels, I have to accept what you say.

The company I have used in the past supply signed 'commissioning certificates' in compliance with 5839-6.

Admittedly, I have not done any fire panels in the last few years.

But, I have to assume if they sign for commissioning, surely the 'commissioning agent' would be liable in the event of an adverese incident.

Paul,

if you pm me, I'll give you the name of a supplier that I have used in the past for fire detection & emergency lighting. You can then decide if they can help or meet what you are looking for.

Regards

Mike

Edited: 25 November 2008 at 09:30 PM by michaelbrett
 25 November 2008 10:58 PM
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paulburns

Posts: 192
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PM sent mike,
Regards Paul.

-------------------------
The one who snores the loudest will fall asleep first.
(one who criticizes is often oblivious to his own faults)
Criticism must be used lightly,A gentle wind kindles,while a strong wind kills the fire.
 26 November 2008 01:04 AM
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oracalist

Posts: 8
Joined: 09 August 2008

hi, i usually instal the rafiki systems in properties,it consists of a control panel,with units that can easily decide with dil switches be made to be smoke or heat detectors with options to be sensors or combined sensor/sounders. they easily interlink with a specific two core and earth cable which you just loop in and out to each detector.good luck
 26 November 2008 08:00 AM
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paulburns

Posts: 192
Joined: 21 August 2005

oracalist, Thanks for your reply.
It has been very helpful, looks like a perfect set of kit for the job. I will locate a local stockist and give them the spec i require.Last thing needed to finish pricing these jobs.

-------------------------
The one who snores the loudest will fall asleep first.
(one who criticizes is often oblivious to his own faults)
Criticism must be used lightly,A gentle wind kindles,while a strong wind kills the fire.
 26 November 2008 10:04 PM
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mackers

Posts: 124
Joined: 25 March 2006

paulburns where in northern ireland are you? Im in Banbridge, I`ve installed many fire alarms, only one in a house, but the combined sounder and detector is best as it looks best for a house. How are you finding it for work over here at the minute?
 26 November 2008 11:10 PM
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paulburns

Posts: 192
Joined: 21 August 2005

Hi Mackers,
Sent you a PM, as i dont want to risk being told how inadequate i am at my job again, only so much putting down a man can take in one week.
Regards Paul

-------------------------
The one who snores the loudest will fall asleep first.
(one who criticizes is often oblivious to his own faults)
Criticism must be used lightly,A gentle wind kindles,while a strong wind kills the fire.
 27 November 2008 09:32 AM
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mackers

Posts: 124
Joined: 25 March 2006

paulburns,
I know what you mean, hard to ask a question here without getting shot down.
 27 November 2008 09:43 AM
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mackers

Posts: 124
Joined: 25 March 2006

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